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View Poll Results: Are you for or against cashless society without banknotes?
Against cashless society 145 79.23%
Undecided 9 4.92%
For cashless society 29 15.85%
Voters: 183. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-27-2018, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
3,053 posts, read 1,112,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
In fact, China is more advanced on this aspect. Most people use cellphone to pay for everyday purchase. In some cases, the purchase can only be paid by cellphone while cash is not accepted.
Ha. I misread that as "cellophane" and I thought they had introduced transparent polymer bills.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:49 AM
 
9,322 posts, read 9,563,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munna21977 View Post
So how was the payment system in Iceland, Finland. Greece all those years ago ?

Surely there were no Smartphones and app payments.
Very little online banking and internet services.
Common Masses used Diners Club Cards or what ??
Visa was founded in 1958; (as BankAmericard)
Mastercard was Founded in 1966; (as Interbank Card Association) 1979; (as Mastercard)

I said 30 years ago in Iceland, not 60 years ago. Without smartphones cash was still primarily used for person to person transactions. I should point out that Iceland in addition to having a very small population, suffered from massive inflation. The currency in Iceland had to be revalued in 1981 to remove two zeros. Removing zeros is relatively common in Latin America and in Africa, but it is seldom done in Europe. Italy issued a 500,000 lira banknote in 1996.

After the re-evaluation in Iceland in 1981, it became much easier to conduct all transactions involving a business with bank credit cards. By 1985 Iceland had only 1% of it's GDP circulating in cash.
The 10,000 ISK (Icelandic Krona) worth 70.9EUR=62.6GBP is now circulating at over 10 banknotes per capita
===============================
By the 1990s Finland, France, and Britain made heavy use of credit cards as well. In addition, none of those countries seemed to have the cultural need to store away money in large denomination banknotes like the Germans, Austrians, Belgians and Dutch. France went from 3.1% GDP in banknotes and coins to the Euro Zone average of 10.7% GDP.

There has been a large jump in physical cash in most of the world (except Sweden). The best measure is by percent of GDP. The table shows the change from the year 2000 and 2016 which is long after we have plenty of credit cards.

2000 Country 2016
5.5% United States 8.1%

3.1% France 10.7%
4.2% Netherlands 10.7%
4.8% Belgium 10.7%
6.0% Italy 10.7%
6.2% Germany 10.7%

4.1% Sweden 1.4% (only country on this list to drop it's cash in circulation)
3.3% Canada 4.2%
3.2% United Kingdom 3.9%
7.7% Switzerland 12.3% (much of Swiss cash is circulating outside of Switzerland)

7.1% Singapore 10.4%
7.2% Hong Kong 16.9%
12.1% Japan 20.0%

Note: I used the year 2000 because the fixed rates of exchange with the Euro had been in affect since 1999, but the physical banknotes and coins were not issued until 2002. In the year 2001 people made a large effort to eliminate cash since they didn't want to be audited during the changeover.

Quote:
There are personal and cultural opinions about what is the best amount of cash to circulate. Too little cash and there is a loss of personal freedom, the ability to operate outside of banks, and the inability to function if power and cellular networks are down. Too much cash and the economy can stagnate, it aids criminal activity, and the notion that GDP backs up currency becomes strained. But it is shocking that only Japan had more than 8% of GDP in cash in the year 2000, and now most of the world is higher than 8%.

Virtually every central bank in the world pretends that they have no goals for cash circulation, and that they just print cash to meet demand.
===============================


An interesting development may happen in Sweden. Five years the 7 largest banks introduced the smartphone app named SWISH to allow person to person transfers of money between two people that both have bank accounts. It has been wildly successful with banknotes in circulation being reduced by over 50%, the banks refusing to handle cash at teller windows. While ATMs are about as scarce as they are in Africa, the real problem is that most ATMs won't take deposits of cash. So while consumers can get cash, it is often very difficult for businesses to deposit cash. The result is that businesses must keep cash in registers and safes which means that an increasing number of businesses simply don't accept payments in cash.

The total reliance on ATMs also means if there is a solar pulse that shuts down electricity , people can't even get physical cash. The total cash in circulation is so low, that people clearly don't have much stored in home safes.

But commercial banks are not charities, and they are thinking that it may be time to start charging a fee to use SWISH. With much of the cash infrastructure destroyed, it may be difficult to return to the peak of circulating cash (roughly the year 2007).

The government of Sweden will probably start circulating digital currency which is issued by the central bank and has more in common with banknotes than credit cards. That will give citizens an alternative to SWISH. But it may set up a kind of competition between the commercial banks and the central bank.

Since the Swedish currency has varied from 11.67 to 8.19 SEK/EUR since 2002, doing transactions using EURO banknotes does have some exchange risk.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 11-28-2018 at 10:55 AM..
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:51 PM
 
Location: World
3,318 posts, read 3,324,232 times
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How much are the interest rates on Deposits like CD in Sweden ?? If they are near zero and there are charges to use SWISH, it will be foolish for common people to discard cash.

This is detrimental to Foreign visitors to Sweden. Not every Foreigner has smartphone apps set-up for payments. Foreign bank cards are either refused or slapped with multiple charges. Try making a payment on some Indian Bank Debit card in Europe !!

Last edited by munna21977; 11-28-2018 at 01:49 PM..
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Old 11-28-2018, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,100 posts, read 448,419 times
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I am less bothered by using cash but the amount of bank notes involved in each transaction.

For example, in Japan and South Korea where cash is still commonly used, the largest denomination in banknote are 10,000 Yen (US$87) and 5,000 Won (US$44) respectively. And because things are not cheap in either country, especially Japan, so whenever I travel to either country, I have to bring an extra large wallet to fit all those banknotes in.

Europe is better with the 500 Euro banknote. But now they are phasing it out.
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Old 11-28-2018, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,100 posts, read 448,419 times
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And of course, the most bothering is the coins.

For example, in UK, there are coins denominated in one pence, two pence, five pence, ten pence, twenty pence, fifty pence, one pound and two pound in circulation. Some are silver, while another one is gold in center with silver on the rim. And another one has a hole in the center. I never can tell which is which and usually I just open my purse and let the cashier choose.

Also I must have different combination of coins with me anytime because so many toilets need exact change to go in.

Another problem is foreign coins, especially UK & Europe & Switzerland, are much heavier than U.S. and Canadian coins.

The last problem is country like UK loves to mint new coins about every 20 years and the old coins became obsolete. I have three batches of British coins that are minted in three different eras. The only way I can replace the two older batches is via bank. But as a tourist, who would go the extra mile to just replace coins?
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:27 PM
 
Location: World
3,318 posts, read 3,324,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
And of course, the most bothering is the coins.

For example, in UK, there are coins denominated in one pence, two pence, five pence, ten pence, twenty pence, fifty pence, one pound and two pound in circulation. Some are silver, while another one is gold in center with silver on the rim. And another one has a hole in the center. I never can tell which is which and usually I just open my purse and let the cashier choose.

Also I must have different combination of coins with me anytime because so many toilets need exact change to go in.

Another problem is foreign coins, especially UK & Europe & Switzerland, are much heavier than U.S. and Canadian coins.

The last problem is country like UK loves to mint new coins about every 20 years and the old coins became obsolete. I have three batches of British coins that are minted in three different eras. The only way I can replace the two older batches is via bank. But as a tourist, who would go the extra mile to just replace coins?
I love coins as they help me purchase water bottle or a quick drink or a Luggage Cart at Foreign Airports while transiting or after reaching the destination.

I keep a collection of coins like 2 Dirham coins is enough to quench my thirst at Dubai Airport, a Ten Rupee Coin at Delhi Airport machine, anything less then two euros are enough in Germany, Spain without the need for using banknotes or looking at ATM. In UK, I need 1 pound coin even for baggage trolley after landing.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
And of course, the most bothering is the coins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
South Korea where cash is still commonly used, the largest denomination in banknote are 5,000 Won (US$44). And because things are not cheap in either country, especially Japan, so whenever I travel to either country, I have to bring an extra large wallet to fit all those banknotes in.
You are missing a zero since ₩50,000~US$44

Prior to 2009 the largest banknote was ₩10,000 which made going to the ATM a nightmare. Presumably they are mortally afraid of North Korean counterfeiting.

In three years, South Korea will make all coins invalid. As most people will not want to forego receiving change, you can expact most transactions to be conducted electronically. The everday use of ₩1000, ₩5000 and ₩10000 banknotes should radically decrease. Only the ₩50,000 will remain popular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Europe is better with the 500 Euro banknote. But now they are phasing it out.
Th €500 banknote peaked in circulation at 613 million notes in December 2015 when the ECB announced that it would not be updated in 2019. The last note of the old series was produced in 2014. Circulation has been reduced to 521 million notes as of today. Although the note will not be included next year when the new €100 and €200 note are introduced, the ECB is producing over a billion €200 banknotes so that the amount of circulating cash is not reduced.

The old €500 banknote will remain legal tender possibly forever, but without an update it will become harder and harder to use. People who hold them will mostly switch to the new Europa series €200 banknote. But Switzerland is counting on the fact that some people love holding large denomination banknotes. Switzerland will issue a brand new 1000CHF ~ €881 banknote in 2019 with 13 elaborate security devices making it effectively impossible to accurately counterfeit.

The current 1000CHF note is circulating 48.26 million pieces at the end of 2016. It seems unlikely that a country of just over 8 million people are using all of those high value banknotes. If they end up circulating over 100 million pieces of the new 1000CHF banknote all over Europe and possibly in other parts of the world, that will be a hugely successful business for the Swiss government. They may even be able to lower tax rates.

Accounting does not recognize circulating your banknotes outside of your country as profit. Those banknotes are on the books as a "liability". However, a liability that is never redeemed is essentially a kind of profit, even though a central bank is not considered a profit earning institution. However, you want to view it, the banknotes cost only a few dollars to produce, and someone has to come up with a thousand dollars of goods or services to get these banknotes, just to put them in his safe.
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Thailand
5,314 posts, read 2,527,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munna21977 View Post
Foreign bank cards are either refused or slapped with multiple charges.
It's always wise to have some cash, but you can get credit/debit cards with no forex fees that reimburses the foreign ATM fees. I pay $0 in fees when using credit cards or ATMs overseas, and I use the credit card almost every day.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:38 AM
 
348 posts, read 210,964 times
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https://www.thefutureofcash.com/


January 17th, 2019

Photocaption: John Winchcombe, chair of the ‘Future of Cash’ conference, says people need to wake up to the disappearance of cash


TIME FOR ‘MASSIVE’ CASH WAKE-UP – NEW CONFERENCE ADDRESSES CRITICAL ISSUES[/CENTER][/CENTER]

“We can’t afford a cashless world…” says event chair[/CENTER][/CENTER]

People need urgently to wake-up to the implications of the disappearance of cash as society faces the ‘dangers’ of a cashless world, says the organisers behind a the aptly-titled ‘Future of Cash’ conference.

The event will see central bankers and global decision makers from financial institutions, currency producers and cash management companies, gather in Athens, Greece (20/21 February 2019) to discuss current cash usage and what profitable measures can be adopted to secure its future.

In much of the world cash usage continues to grow alongside the growth in alternative payment methods. As the only event of its type, the 15th ‘Future of Cash’ conference will draw heavily on examples and case studies of cash models and optimisation around the world.

It will play host to a panel discussion to draw conclusions and consider the implications for cash for society and cash stakeholders.

In particular, the event will seek practical steps to maintain cash usage, particularly reducing the cost of cash in circulation for society and cash users.

These include the adoption of new technologies and processes, such as the hastening of new networks of ‘public utility’ ATMs which can benefit wider society as the banks look to pool their infrastructures in an effort to curb the cost of cash in circulation.

The role of retailers will also come under the spotlight, specifically how they can play a central role in any new-look future cash network, providing accessible services to local communities through ‘smart till’ technology as banks continue to trim the footprint of their branches.

The sense that cash’s position is changing and that this will only continue to accelerate, has never been stronger, said John Winchcombe, conference chair and organiser.

He says: “Cash offers choice, freedom and financial inclusion for billions of people around the world. But equally the future is rapidly evolving, and so the issues require extensive debate and examination.”

A 2018 report, published last month (December 2018) by the Access to Cash Review in the UK - one of the countries in the so-called vanguard of cashless payments - found that around one in six people continue to regard cash as a necessity.

The deputy governor of the Bank of England and Nicky Morgan, chair of the UK Government’s Treasury Committee, have also added their support to cash, saying that it remains important, and that it will continue to do so well into the future as a convenient way to make payments.

In this context John Winchcombe says: “The future of cash is very important - the dangers of a cashless world, in which billions of people could be left behind, are real.

“So, this latest conference comes as a timely opportunity to wake-up and really consider the future for all those involved in cash and payment technologies.”

He also adds that once the current cash infrastructures disappear, they will be gone for forever: “We will never be able to get them back. In this world, people without bank accounts will find themselves marginalised, disenfranchised from an infrastructure that previously supported them.

“This is why we need to have the big cash debate now. It’s important for all our futures and why policy and decision makers will come together in Athens to address the changing environment and what progress can be made to secure a stronger, brighter future.”

Details of the conference programme are available at www.thefutureofcash.com Alternatively, email John Winchcombe at john.winchcombe@outlook.com

Media contacts: Andy Bruce, MHW PR. Tel 0191 233 1300 or email andy@mhwpr.co.uk
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Old 01-19-2019, 01:32 PM
 
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I still don't understand this hysteria about the upcoming cashless society. A survey by the BIS covering 42 countries from the period 2006-2016 found that the growth in Currency in Circulation (CIC) was outpacing growth in GDP in all but one country (the poster boy for cashless society, Sweden). Even Sweden seems to be reconsidering as it's CIC increased in 2018 after eleven straight years of decreasing.

The USA increased it's Currency in Circulation by 86.77% while it's GDP only increased by 34.51% from 2006 to 2016.

The United Kingdom (U.K.) actually saw it's GDP drop slightly over the period, and despite a cultural distrust of large denomination banknotes increased it's CIC supply by over 80%.

Sweden and Norway were the only countries that were decreasing currency in circulation, but Norway was also suffering a drop in GDP, while Sweden had positive GDP growth. Both countries have diminished circulation of their 1000kr banknote (the largest in circulation for the last few decades).

Only 14% of the world's economy is not included in this list.
Difference Country Growth in CIC minus Growth in GDP
  • 769.3% Argentina 904.04% minus 134.72%
  • 454.5% Sudan 621.32% minus 166.83%
  • 409.2% Mozambique 441.72% minus 32.52%
  • 377.5% DR Congo 522.28% minus 144.81%
  • 368.2% Ukraine 354.74% minus -13.44%
  • 326.7% Angola 441.16% minus 114.49%
  • 311.8% Iceland 329.46% minus 17.63%
  • 274.3% Algeria 318.17% minus 43.83%
  • 243.6% Pakistan 350.26% minus 106.65%
  • 206.0% Afghanistan 371.57% minus 165.62%
  • 180.3% South Korea 249.75% minus 69.50%
  • 166.9% Bolivia 362.06% minus 195.20%
  • 155.9% Egypt 368.75% minus 212.88%
  • 139.6% Iraq 279.57% minus 139.97%
  • 138.7% Mexico 224.11% minus 85.42%
  • 130.7% Chile 234.42% minus 103.74%
  • 130.3% Turkey 358.55% minus 228.24%
  • 126.1% Kazakhstan 191.05% minus 65.00%
  • 119.0% Israel 197.56% minus 78.56%
  • 109.2% Colombia 182.97% minus 73.73%
  • 102.0% Oman 148.41% minus 46.39%
  • 85.9% U.K. 83.73% minus -2.22%
  • 72.6% Eurozone 79.26% minus 6.62%
  • 52.3% U.S. 86.77% minus 34.51%
  • 48.1% Myanmar 412.99% minus 364.94%
  • 36.0% Morocco 88.86% minus 52.84%
  • 34.8% Kenya 207.94% minus 173.10%
  • 26.5% Thailand 109.98% minus 83.46%
  • 24.3% India 287.23% minus 262.91%
  • 23.9% Switzerland 77.61% minus 53.74%
  • 22.8% Canada 58.64% minus 35.87%
  • 21.5% New Zealand 75.69% minus 54.23%
  • 18.0% Japan 27.07% minus 9.03%
  • 17.7% Australia 80.65% minus 62.93%
  • 12.7% Russia 177.94% minus 165.28%
  • 11.6% Denmark 19.82% minus 8.22%
  • 10.4% Brazil 170.49% minus 160.09%
  • 5.2% Norway -2.37% minus -7.57%
  • 3.5% Indonesia 243.02% minus 239.56%
  • 1.1% Nigeria 179.65% minus 178.54%
  • 0.1% South Africa 134.67% minus 134.54%
  • -65.9% Sweden -44.24% minus 21.66%
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