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View Poll Results: Are you for or against cashless society without banknotes?
Against cashless society 142 79.33%
Undecided 9 5.03%
For cashless society 28 15.64%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-29-2017, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,605 posts, read 1,008,965 times
Reputation: 1559

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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtocolumbia View Post
Are you for or against cashless society without banknotes?
I'm 50-50 on this.

In reality cash is completely worthless if there's nothing to use it for, hence cash is only used to store value. Kind of like a point system. The more cash you got, the more valuable assets you can buy with it. But what creates this value? People do. Individuals needs a valuable skill for employers to hire. And businesses needs to produce a valuable product that people want to buy. Cash only serves as the "point system" to keep track of transactions between parties in individual markets.

So in a sense, physical printed cash, is pointless. Because you can do the same thing using numbers on a computer screen.

However, the downside to a 100% cashless society is, numbers on a screen don't really change people's behaviors. Cold hard cash does. Just look at the amount of people in debt up to their eyeballs. With everything that people buy... everyone overspends on literally everything. Imagine those same people in debt were to have their debt in cold hard cash, do you think they'll be tempted spend it all? Generally no. So with this behavior in mind, I think maintaining cash is a good idea. If everyone in the country goes on a spending spree, I guarantee, there will be another recession down the line similar to 2008. So in effect, the end result is: cashless society is good only if people can control their financial behaviors and act upon them within reason.
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:29 PM
 
5,513 posts, read 3,367,544 times
Reputation: 13965
We have one smallish account at a large, national bank (most of our banking is done at a small local bank). Today I got the usual quarterly statement, but printed on it was a notification that I found rather sinister:

"We are committed to doing our part to deter criminal activities related to money laundering. We are enhancing our level of security on cash transactions in order to meet regulatory guideline. To comply with these requirements, we need to clearly identify all individuals making cash transactions at our branches.

Because of this requirement, we will require additional information from individuals who make cash transactions at the branch. This additional information includes: full name, address, date of birth, taxpayer identification number (of the individual), occupation and photo identification (driver's license or government issued ID). Please be ready to provide this information when asked."

Wow. My first thought was, they really do not like that cash cannot be tracked and traced. And I noticed that there was no definition of "cash transaction." Is all that extra ID needed for withdrawals, deposits, or both? If I go into a branch and withdraw or deposit $20 cash from my account, do I need to provide all that ridiculous info?

From now on, no cash that comes our way is going into our bank accounts. We'll keep it elsewhere, thanks very much.
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:32 PM
 
326 posts, read 192,871 times
Reputation: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
I'm 50-50 on this.

In reality cash is completely worthless if there's nothing to use it for, hence cash is only used to store value. Kind of like a point system. The more cash you got, the more valuable assets you can buy with it. But what creates this value? People do. Individuals needs a valuable skill for employers to hire. And businesses needs to produce a valuable product that people want to buy. Cash only serves as the "point system" to keep track of transactions between parties in individual markets.

So in a sense, physical printed cash, is pointless. Because you can do the same thing using numbers on a computer screen.

However, the downside to a 100% cashless society is, numbers on a screen don't really change people's behaviors. Cold hard cash does. Just look at the amount of people in debt up to their eyeballs. With everything that people buy... everyone overspends on literally everything. Imagine those same people in debt were to have their debt in cold hard cash, do you think they'll be tempted spend it all? Generally no. So with this behavior in mind, I think maintaining cash is a good idea. If everyone in the country goes on a spending spree, I guarantee, there will be another recession down the line similar to 2008. So in effect, the end result is: cashless society is good only if people can control their financial behaviors and act upon them within reason.
With digital money, any corporation, any grocery store etc. can look you up, keep your dossier on what you spend, what you buy, and then spam you to death. They will give you a 4% fake discount just to know your name and what you buy and your spending habits, so you sign up for the Devil's Card. Plus the government will know everything about you and hope there is no evil in the government... BIG DIFFERENCE. Pay bills online or digitally, from your bank account, OK. The rest should be cash, and some by cards, if desired. The grocery where I shop has been pushing "discount cards" to all shoppers, to the point where cashiers push the card down ones throat every time you pay at the cash register, she gives you the form to sign, even knowing she already handed these forms to you a 1000 times before (I compost those forms) to the point one wants to throw up, knowing how crooked the owner is, and how few there are stores in this remote location and this one has the lowest prices and a lot of junk no one wants to buy, but one's got no choice. I told them to back off so many times, yet they remain persistent like dung flies. The more they push, the more I hold on to my cash. This grocery did not want to honour their discount stickers in the past, then they switched to digital cards. I will never trust these crooks. The government is pushing on them hard, to spy on the shoppers and their shopping habits, to potentially be able to steal money from our account, to pay fantastic taxes. It's disgusting, and for that alone I vote 1000% cash!
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,605 posts, read 1,008,965 times
Reputation: 1559
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtocolumbia View Post
With digital money, any corporation, any grocery store etc. can look you up, keep your dossier on what you spend, what you buy, and then spam you to death. They will give you a 4% fake discount just to know your name and what you buy and your spending habits, so you sign up for the Devil's Card. Plus the government will know everything about you and hope there is no evil in the government... BIG DIFFERENCE. Pay bills online or digitally, from your bank account, OK. The rest should be cash, and some by cards, if desired. The grocery where I shop has been pushing "discount cards" to all shoppers, to the point where cashiers push the card down ones throat every time you pay at the cash register, she gives you the form to sign, even kowing she already handed these forms to you a 1000 times before, to the point one wants to throw up, knowing how crooked the owner is, and how few there are stores in this remote location and this one has the lowest prices and a lot of junk no one wants to buy, but one's got no choice. I told them to back off so many times, yet they remain persistent like dung flies. The more they push, the more I hold on to my cash. This grocery did not want to honour their discount stickers in the past, then they switched to digital cards. I will never trust these crooks. The government is pushing on them hard, to spy on the shoppers and their shopping habits, to potentially be able to steal money from our account, to pay fantastic taxes. It's disgusting, and for that alone I vote 1000% cash!
I don't get your point. There is no difference between holding onto your money in cash or digital form.

In fact, the economy won't function without credit and/or lending (lending = literally numbers on a screen that says you owe something). Our economy functions only because people pay their bills, literally. If you take a look at the total amount of cash available in the US economy (M0 per the Federal Reserve) and compare it to the total amount of debt outstanding. You'd find something along the lines of 4T for cash and 50T for debt. Hence, your dollar that you're holding onto, is literally supposed to pay back another party 12-13x over until the debt settles and disappears. Our economy works because we borrow from someone who borrowed from someone etc... over and over again. The physical cash is pointless, as it only flows around in the economy when people pay their bills whether it's in printed money or digital form.
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:40 PM
 
326 posts, read 192,871 times
Reputation: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
We have one smallish account at a large, national bank (most of our banking is done at a small local bank). Today I got the usual quarterly statement, but printed on it was a notification that I found rather sinister:

"We are committed to doing our part to deter criminal activities related to money laundering. We are enhancing our level of security on cash transactions in order to meet regulatory guideline. To comply with these requirements, we need to clearly identify all individuals making cash transactions at our branches.

Because of this requirement, we will require additional information from individuals who make cash transactions at the branch. This additional information includes: full name, address, date of birth, taxpayer identification number (of the individual), occupation and photo identification (driver's license or government issued ID). Please be ready to provide this information when asked."

Wow. My first thought was, they really do not like that cash cannot be tracked and traced. And I noticed that there was no definition of "cash transaction." Is all that extra ID needed for withdrawals, deposits, or both? If I go into a branch and withdraw or deposit $20 cash from my account, do I need to provide all that ridiculous info?

From now on, no cash that comes our way is going into our bank accounts. We'll keep it elsewhere, thanks very much.
Kudos!
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:50 PM
 
326 posts, read 192,871 times
Reputation: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
I don't get your point. There is no difference between holding onto your money in cash or digital form.

In fact, the economy won't function without credit and/or lending. Our economy functions only because people pay their bills, literally. If you take a look at the total amount of cash available in the US economy (M0 per the Federal Reserve) and compare it to the total amount of debt outstanding. You'd find something along the lines of 4T for cash and 50T for debt. Hence, your dollar that you're holding onto, is literally supposed to pay back another party 12-13x over until the debt settles and disappears. Our economy works because we borrow from someone who borrowed from someone etc... over and over again. The physical cash is pointless, as it only flows around in the economy when people pay their bills whether it's in printed money or digital form.
I am not as smart as you are, so I have little idea what you mean, but if you're pushing for cashless socialist, sorry: society, then you are in the minority. I am not fascistnated with cashless society at all. And yes, if I was selling only for cash I would be penniless now as 99,99999999% of my sales are done via Paypal and credit cards, but when I go shopping, apart from remote and foreign internet purchases, when I go shopping in physical stores, I am spending 99% via my beloved banknotes = cash. I also see beauty, history, geography, education, culture in paper money, bills, banknotes. I do collect curency notes, and even invest in them, and the gains are sometimes enormous! One example an African (unnamed) banknote purchased around 10 years ago for less than a buck and sold at a live auction for $15000, a modern rarity in just over a decade. Too many to name. Digital rubbish can't compete with that.
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,605 posts, read 1,008,965 times
Reputation: 1559
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtocolumbia View Post
I am not as smart as you are, so I have little idea what you mean, but if you're pushing for cashless socialist, sorry: society, then you are in the minority. I am not fascistnated with cashless society at all. And yes, if I was selling only for cash I would be penniless now as 99,99999999% of my sales are done via Paypal and credit cards, but when I go shopping, apart from remote and foreign internet purchases, when I go shopping in physical stores, I am spending 99% via my beloved banknotes = cash. I also see beauty, history, geography, education, culture in paper money, bills, banknotes. I do collect curency notes, and even invest in them, and the gains are sometimes enormous! One example an African (unnamed) banknote purchased around 10 years ago for less than a buck and sold at a live auction for $15000, a modern rarity in just over a decade. Too many to name. Digital rubbish can't compete with that.
Then learn about it? Is it that hard to ask? People who make uninformed decisions like yourself helps nobody. In fact, it hurts more than it helps, especially the ones who actually took the time to understand such a topic.

I never said I was pushing for a cashless society. I said, I'm undecided because I see it's upsides and downsides as I understand the function of cash.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,773 posts, read 1,219,983 times
Reputation: 5100
We don't want a cashless society. We really don't. When you have a perfectly accountable system run by not accountable or perfect people...you just don't want one.

Was trading war stories with an accounting friend of mine. They worked at a place, a big company, with fairly widespread installs, that was set to auto renew for $20 a year or so. There was a place where you could log in and tell it not to renew, but later on they discovered that there was a glitch in their program that renewed and charged their card anyway.

Now, they had records and could tell when users had opted out....but it had gone on for about 8 months. For 8 months they'd over reported revenues and charged people against their will.

Do you:
A) Convince the company that the right thing is to give the people their money back, publicly apologize and disclose the error, all of which may end your career and the company.
B) Consider that nobody is going to sue you for $20, quietly fix the problem and don't give people a hard time if they follow up to cancel. Keep the ill-gotten money. The company stays open and you collect your bonus.

Just an example.

Edit to add: The software was supposed to help protect you against unauthorized use of your computers or information.
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:41 AM
 
326 posts, read 192,871 times
Reputation: 190
We went to visit the Islamic Republic of Sweden, but we were left hungry entire afternoon and night and the morning thereafter because we brought only cash and were unable to buy souvenirs, coffee, pay at the restaurant and finally food at the supermarket. We felt like hungry vagrants. Hotel did not accept cash either, so we spent a night at the airport, sleeping on the floor. I believe Sweden disrespected us and violated our human rights by not accepting cash in Swedish Krona. They should place warnings upon entry to the Islamic Republic of Sverige that: "All Visitors Carrying Cash Are Not Welcome And Will Not Be Served". The next day we took a plane out of Sweden instead of spending there entire week as planned. Sweden today is Cashless Society # 1. Hope this disease does not spread to other countries. Those who voted FOR, please depart for Sweden now. :-)
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:29 AM
 
4,764 posts, read 2,268,925 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtocolumbia View Post
We went to visit the Islamic Republic of Sweden, but we were left hungry entire afternoon and night and the morning thereafter because we brought only cash and were unable to buy souvenirs, coffee, pay at the restaurant and finally food at the supermarket.
You traveled to Europe and didn't bring a credit card?

Your problem isn't Sweden, it's your decision making abilities. That was just idiotic.
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