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Old 12-08-2017, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Virginia
120 posts, read 59,619 times
Reputation: 324

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Similar to the my RotoRooter guy... makes a very good living and only high school...

Came to know a local gardener... came here with his wife as refugees from Cambodia with their infant... started mowing lawns with throw away mower put out for trash collection then bought an old truck... fast forward to today has 3 college grad kids... engineer from UC Berkeley, Lawyer and Doctor.

Really makes one wonder why so much negativity when concrete examples to the contrary defy this... the Cambodian gardener didn't speak a word of English and would often be seen with his wife and kids working on jobs together... he wanted them to know hard work so they would seek better.

Fewer and fewer are willing to take the risk to open a business and chart their own destiny... maybe this is what we have lost?
I am starting to think more and more that most of these stories are pure trolling and not true really. But - when did your Cambodian friends arrive in California? 20 years ago? Much different place back then. Many Californians are voting with their pockets and leaving the state. If this were not true, the price of real estate everywhere else would be much more affordable for the rest of America. Instead, they sell a toilet with attached 200 sqft of living space in San Fran and move to Arizona where they can own 20 acres, a beautiful home and have money to retire on. Or Idaho. Or Colorado, Montana, Wyoming, Washington, Utah, New Mexico, Texas, so on and so on....

My wife's parents immigrated from Romania to California in the late 1960s. They didn't speak any English either but they could easily afford to live in LA - both educated (he was a mechanical engineer, she had a MSc in education). They worked as cashiers and did other menial labor until they learned the language. Could afford to do live alright on that until he got all his engineering paperwork and started earning real income. It was pretty easy back then, according to them. They look at what has become of the state of California today and they just shake their heads...

You keep mentioning your plumbing friend, if I remember correctly, you said he was clearing $150K/year. On $150K per year (assuming "clearing" means after taxes), even a single person would have trouble surviving in San Francisco. Most engineer friends I have from school that chose to live in San Fran are renting (many with roommates) with no hope of ever owning, or they are living outside of San Fran and commuting 1-2h each way through hell of a traffic and still not doing that great. My wife's uncle has been a hardware engineer for the last 20 years (his wife too) in San Jose and they are STILL renting. She got laid off 5 years ago at the ripe age of 57 with no prospect of finding another job in her profession there.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Virginia
120 posts, read 59,619 times
Reputation: 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Exactly... the emphasis there in on the unborn, young and productive... not so much for those outside those categories.

The 97 year old that had back surgery in Oakland California injured his back rototilling the same garden he has been rototilling since 1958...

The Austrian Doctor in Vienna's AKH hospital said it simply would not be possible for such a operation to be approved in Austria and more so in the effort that 97 year old could continue driving...

I live in Oakland California which comes under the Alameda Alliance Health Care system which is our version of Medi-Cal which is California's version of Medicaid.

The benefits pay enough so that every hospital accepts it...

Maybe other states fall short and offer less for those dependent?
Well, we will just conclude that elderly in Austria and others are dying like flies because they are denied operations and healthcare. We will also conclude that in United States this does not happen at any age (insurance denied coverage, anyone?) and that Austrians are forced through their communist health care system to roam around Europe in search of basic dental and health care and beg for treatments like gypsies. After all, once they get to a certain age, they are a "throwaway" person who is denied a chance to live on. Good thing these people have such strong genetics to get the life expectancies they get...

Let me ask you this - did your Austrian doctor friend mention the option for the 97 year old to pay for his surgery in Austria?
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Old 12-08-2017, 08:03 AM
 
86 posts, read 51,471 times
Reputation: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartWantsWhatItWants View Post
As someone who has been in the world for 40+ years, I think you are full of s*it (sorry for being rude, just tired of listening to the same old stuff that could be true but isn't really). Yeah, there will always be people who expect something for nothing, who are lazy or will not put in the effort. But most Americans are slowly but surely sliding down into poverty, even if it is not true, crippling poverty - they are slowly losing the battle against stagnating wages, inflation and increasing corporate profits, rising medical costs, rising education costs, automation, dumbing down of the education system, so on and so on. I mean, look who we elected to lead the country. Look at the tax "reform" bill he touts as victory.
You don't have to be rude, I am speaking of my OWN experience as a social worker. It has not been my experience that most people are sliding slowly into poverty. Most I had seen were getting along ok. Yes, there is inflation, rising medical costs, ect. But I am giving you what I have seen with my own eyes for years and years. And yeah, A LOT of people expect something for nothing, it can be pretty shocking to see, specially for someone who is pretty liberal.

At any rate, your rudeness is not warranted.
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,773 posts, read 1,219,983 times
Reputation: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the bottom line is to make money you need to find what others can't or won't do for themselves .

it is not only about a school education .some are very creative at finding that sweet spot , others suck at it or won't even try ,they just follow the herd no where .

my septic guy we used when i had the house in pa has a multi million dollar company with a fleet of trucks and a grade school education .

i was a sales engineer and top salesman for more than a decade up until i retired in a very technical field with just a high school diploma and no knowledge of a damn thing except drumming .

some will always find a way to do well -most of the rest end up just finding an excuse why they can't.

in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king .

if most of us l had a disease and couldn't move our arms , those who could pour coffee would make a lot of money .
Couldn't agree with you more. People don't understand though. We were out for a work lunch at a restaurant, we were seated. We're a self exalted little bunch. The irony of our group complaining of there being too much to do as people skip out at 4:00 to evade traffic still isn't lost on me. Anyway, the place doesn't seem large, but it's taken over the space next to it. A middle aged lady in shorts and a t-shirt emerged from the back. She came to me, recognized me and greeted me. After she took our order and went to the kitchen, the table wondered how I knew her...an obvious immigrant of lower class. And I said that is x, she is not a waitress, she owns this place, and she make more money than any of us, and my wife cleans some of their items. I don't think most of them believe I married a dry cleaner. I'm firmly placed in the yuppie bubble.

So a bunch of professionals that mostly rent yet want to send their kids to fashionable preschools and try the latest high end restaurants while weekending in Tahoe have problems saving money.

The guy that fix our homes, the gardeners, the janitors, we've got the alterations, the hairdressers, the plumbers, tow truck drivers etc etc. The owners are easy to spot. They're the ones busting their butt to get things done. They move 2x faster than everyone else. They don't vacation as much because they can't, they'll hurt their business. When they do, they do it right. They understand those little store in plazas will either make money or lose money. The dependency is whether or not the owner is there, capable and making it work.

Those are the ones to watch. The millionaires nobody even suspects of having a pot to **** in.
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:48 AM
 
25,866 posts, read 49,763,368 times
Reputation: 19313
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
we are in crisis mode here in nyc so many hospitals have closed their doors and went bankrupt ..
Same here... the small independents as well as the those with affiliates.

I keep hearing how profitable Health Care is but when 86% of your ER utilization is from those with little ability to pay... anyone can see the profit isn't there.

We went the other way... a small community Hospital that is now part of a 100,000 health care organization.... we have a long history of providing for our community but the reimbursement rates kept falling and costs increasing...

Being part of a dominant provider with large market share means reimbursements from insurance companies is much better... in some cases much, much better... as the big guys can play hardball where the small independents have no choice but to fold.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:04 AM
 
25,866 posts, read 49,763,368 times
Reputation: 19313
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartWantsWhatItWants View Post
I am starting to think more and more that most of these stories are pure trolling and not true really. But - when did your Cambodian friends arrive in California? 20 years ago? Much different place back then. Many Californians are voting with their pockets and leaving the state. If this were not true, the price of real estate everywhere else would be much more affordable for the rest of America. Instead, they sell a toilet with attached 200 sqft of living space in San Fran and move to Arizona where they can own 20 acres, a beautiful home and have money to retire on. Or Idaho. Or Colorado, Montana, Wyoming, Washington, Utah, New Mexico, Texas, so on and so on....

My wife's parents immigrated from Romania to California in the late 1960s. They didn't speak any English either but they could easily afford to live in LA - both educated (he was a mechanical engineer, she had a MSc in education). They worked as cashiers and did other menial labor until they learned the language. Could afford to do live alright on that until he got all his engineering paperwork and started earning real income. It was pretty easy back then, according to them. They look at what has become of the state of California today and they just shake their heads...

You keep mentioning your plumbing friend, if I remember correctly, you said he was clearing $150K/year. On $150K per year (assuming "clearing" means after taxes), even a single person would have trouble surviving in San Francisco. Most engineer friends I have from school that chose to live in San Fran are renting (many with roommates) with no hope of ever owning, or they are living outside of San Fran and commuting 1-2h each way through hell of a traffic and still not doing that great. My wife's uncle has been a hardware engineer for the last 20 years (his wife too) in San Jose and they are STILL renting. She got laid off 5 years ago at the ripe age of 57 with no prospect of finding another job in her profession there.
They arrived in 1991... full refugee status and there is a large Cambodian population in Oakland CA so 26 years ago to be exact... Dad and Mom still run the landscape business and are very hard working... their 3 kids are all UC grads...

The Rooter man is a born and raised Californian... white guy of 46 ??? He use to have his young son with him but I asked if he was going to make the company father and son... he recoiled in shock... said his son was going to college to be someone... same everywhere that parents want better for their kids.

I don't know how it has come that a person clearing a 150k in business is looked at as scraping by?... he has a modest home that he bought in 2012... after years of renting... Home prices fell as much as 80% in Oakland and 40-50% elsewhere was not outside the norm in the East Bay...

I posted several years back 50+ homes on the Oakland MLS under 100k with a few around 50k... that is only 4 to 6 years ago... not a generation back.

The home next to me sold for 80k back around 1990... changed hands several times and sold for 510k in 2007... two years later it sold foreclosure for 100k... that is how volatile the East Oakland market was.. five years later the market has more than recovered...

Really... when was it ever easy?

Each period of time has good and bad... yet the population of the Bay Area cities continues to grow despite the "Mass" exodus from California... go figure.

Oregon, Nevada AZ and Texas are popular destination for my established friends that have relocated.

In Texas would be Austin as those that have made the move says it has a more California feel... my retired military friend loves Tyler... bought land, no permit needed to build his home and his ranch and keeps me posted with his work over the last 15 years... simply amazing the freedom he has there... started out with 200 acres...

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 12-08-2017 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:17 AM
 
25,866 posts, read 49,763,368 times
Reputation: 19313
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartWantsWhatItWants View Post
Well, we will just conclude that elderly in Austria and others are dying like flies because they are denied operations and healthcare. We will also conclude that in United States this does not happen at any age (insurance denied coverage, anyone?) and that Austrians are forced through their communist health care system to roam around Europe in search of basic dental and health care and beg for treatments like gypsies. After all, once they get to a certain age, they are a "throwaway" person who is denied a chance to live on. Good thing these people have such strong genetics to get the life expectancies they get...

Let me ask you this - did your Austrian doctor friend mention the option for the 97 year old to pay for his surgery in Austria?
Very few Roma or Gypsies in modern Austria... and no... elderly or not dying like flies... and most Austrians polled like their healthcare and social services... each small community has a senior retirement home and they are very nice and up beat... no one worries about Health Coverage... they simply don't worry about having a large rainy day nest egg either... also forget about running to the HomeDepot equivalent or 24 hour grocery store because they don't exist nights or most weekends and Never on a Sunday....

Of my circle they spend money on their homes, holidays and a few on cars... the days of the one small econobox for the entire family are long gone... life is quite good and much more laid back... Catholic Charities is also huge...

My nurse friend had a child born severely handicapped... I mean cannot walk or speak or communicate and is now age 8... he does show he recognizes through facial expression and is quite happy when he hears Mom and Dad's voices...

She is a nurse and had to fight with the Hospital for him to be born... the Doctors 100% wanted her to abort and she was not having any part of it... even a late term abortion was still on the table and the Docs were spot on the diagnosis as the last 8 years have shown... it has been the Catholic Church that has really stepped up to help the family on a regular basis... not the the Social Services..
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Virginia
120 posts, read 59,619 times
Reputation: 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
They arrived in 1991... full refugee status and there is a large Cambodian population in Oakland CA so 26 years ago to be exact... Dad and Mom still run the landscape business and are very hard working... their 3 kids are all UC grads...

The Rooter man is a born and raised Californian... white guy of 46 ??? He use to have his young son with him but I asked if he was going to make the company father and son... he recoiled in shock... said his son was going to college to be someone... same everywhere that parents want better for their kids.

I don't know how it has come that a person clearing a 150k in business is looked at as scraping by?... he has a modest home that he bought in 2012... after years of renting... Home prices fell as much as 80% in Oakland and 40-50% elsewhere was not outside the norm in the East Bay...

I posted several years back 50+ homes on the Oakland MLS under 100k with a few around 50k... that is only 4 to 6 years ago... not a generation back.

The home next to me sold for 80k back around 1990... changed hands several times and sold for 510k in 2007... two years later it sold foreclosure for 100k... that is how volatile the East Oakland market was.. five years later the market has more than recovered...

Really... when was it ever easy?

Each period of time has good and bad... yet the population of the Bay Area cities continues to grow despite the "Mass" exodus from California... go figure.

Oregon, Nevada AZ and Texas are popular destination for my established friends that have relocated.

In Texas would be Austin as those that have made the move says it has a more California feel... my retired military friend loves Tyler... bought land, no permit needed to build his home and his ranch and keeps me posted with his work over the last 15 years... simply amazing the freedom he has there... started out with 200 acres...
Clearing $150K is meaningless if you live in San Fran. I thought that is what you said you were, not Oakland.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:58 AM
 
25,866 posts, read 49,763,368 times
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I live in Oakland... the jewel of the SF Bay Area and closer to the SF financial district than much of San Francisco.

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding...

I live here, my father was born here as my Grandmother...

About the only time I go to SF proper is when hosting visitors from Europe... the son and girlfriend from a colleague in Austria stayed with me 3 weeks in August... more than half that time was spent in SF... each morning I would drop them off at the BART station and then pick them up whenever they called...

As every other visitor I have hosted... they simply could not get enough of SF and the Bay Area... the Golden Gate, the hills, Cable Cars, China Town, Fisherman's Wharf, Sausalito and the coast... for me, the best thing about SF is the magnificent backdrop the city lights make looking at it from Oakland at night.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
11,073 posts, read 11,478,495 times
Reputation: 17238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Indian Reservations are not what they use to be... I managed property in Washington State where each adult tribe member received 6k monthly stipend from Gaming... things were not always this way but the pendulum has swung and Indian Gaming and Reservation Tax Exempt Sales have made a huge impact...

My experience is limited to West Coast and fully admit that I do not know what I don't know...

Spending decades managing Low Income property I have personally seen even providing a clean, decent and nice home is no guarantee it will be appreciated or even valued.

The services and assistance available to those of low means is truely amazing and I still meet people that simply cannot fathom the extent of the largess... one of my very good friends... I was in both of his kids weddings worked for the Telephone company... lived in a two bedroom home with a basement... had 4 kids, a mortgage and mother in law all living in the tight quarters... he had a job and medical and retirement.

One of the investors I know started buying homes in that neighborhood and was gutting the kitchens and baths and doing a nice job updating plus adding new windows, efficient central heat etc...

My friend with the family of 7 in a two bedroom home and paying all the bills couldn't believe his new next door neighbor was paying $135 a month for the same but remodeled home for her and her child on Section 8...

Had my working friend been on housing the Federal Standard would not have ALLOWED a family of 7 to be in a two bedroom home... but as a working man it was OK... the disparity is stark.

The lady on Section 8 was very nice... as is her daughter... she had full medical coverage, discounted utilities, school lunch and a rent payment of $135 a month.

Maybe Section 8 is like retiring but decades earlier than those working?

I have seen some success stories on Section 8 but l can count them on one hand... more to the point is generational assistance... one single family home in a 600k neighborhood covers 4 generations... the kicker is the Grandmother on Section 8 had 3 kids... one in the military and did very well another that is a Police Officer and then there is the problem child with 3 kids from 3 fathers and all of those kids are screwed up and now their kids are screwed up... the Grandmother was disabled... and it became a way of life for her youngest who is now age 55
Yes, it astonishes me how oblivious the general public can be. They turn a blind eye, and then think everything is fine because they don't see it. I would like to take away people's credit cards, cash, their paychecks, their house, and most of their clothes, plunk them down in any economically depressed area for a month, and see how they survive. Millions of Americans are about four paychecks away from sleeping under a bridge, but the vast clueless think it's people's own fault if they are poor.

I have had friends who died for no other reason than that they were poor. No, they did not graduate from Harvard, which was obviously their own fault. I have sailed through life with good looks, an agile mind and white skin. Much of my comfortable life is due to nothing but dumb luck. I have friends who lack just one of those advantages, and their lives are much more painful than mine.

I'm sure you intended to say they received a $6k annual stipend from gaming. Maybe the Alaska natives received huge payments from oil, but never in the lower 48. Even $500/month is so last century. Those payments went away years ago.
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