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Old 11-21-2017, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
20,955 posts, read 15,267,317 times
Reputation: 23722

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
I never encountered age discrimination where I worked. It is a matter of having skills and abilities that are in demand, pretty much at any age. Even after I retired I kept getting calls for good jobs....full time, part time or consulting. Of course, there are jobs where that would not happen. I cannot imagine trying to keep working in a field that required strenuous manual work. Many jobs can wear you out way before retirement age.
Then you're incredibly lucky.

I work in a staff level IT role. A couple years back, I was applying for a job in South Carolina. One of the first questions the interviewer asked me was "how do I feel about being managed by someone younger than myself?" I had maybe three to four years of total experience then, and was in my late 20s.

One of my previous employers was a Boston based tech company that is not a household name. The senior manager of my department (who was in his mid-40s) who had the final say on hiring staff systems analysts/engineers had a de facto policy in place.

1) At least five years of total experience, but not fewer than two and no more than five at any one place. Someone with fewer than two at any one place was considering a job hopper - more than five, and they were viewed as too set in their ways and "inflexible."

This basically excluded all candidates 30+ who had worked their way up at one employer.

2) He'd only interview candidates from the top engineering schools at first. In Boston, we'd get passed over for bigger tech names from the top engineering schools. In Indianapolis, that meant Purdue. They would interview other options only if not receiving candidates from top schools.

IMO, if you're ten or even five years out of school, what you've done in the workforce since then is more important than a marquee academic brand.

3) You had to pass an analytical test to even be considered. This was a blanket policy set from the founder/CEO. Only about 15% of the candidates passed this test. This culled probably at least a dozen otherwise eminently qualified candidates at our satellite office we really liked and who probably would have succeeded, but could not be hired.

4) That senior manager was Indian, and preferred mostly H-1B Indian candidates. The workforce was HQ was predominantly Indian, with a smattering of white/Chinese men thrown in there too. Our local office was probably 50/50 Indian/US natives. There were only (I think) two women who passed through our satellite office and probably 15-20 people worked there while I was there. HQ had even fewer women.

If someone wasn't promoted to senior in five years or so, they were either given the boot or reassigned to other departments. A native US staff member who was employed in the role for four years was basically demoted to entry-level support specialist and reassigned to the customer facing help desk. Some other staff were reassigned the worst clients, then resigned. Others were fired for basically BS reasons.

I think the longest tenured employee had been with the company about eight years, was a senior, and probably 50+. Other than the site manager, no one at my satellite office was over 40 - most of us were under 35.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:05 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
28,386 posts, read 50,562,503 times
Reputation: 28616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Then you're incredibly lucky.

I work in a staff level IT role. A couple years back, I was applying for a job in South Carolina. One of the first questions the interviewer asked me was "how do I feel about being managed by someone younger than myself?" I had maybe three to four years of total experience then, and was in my late 20s.

One of my previous employers was a Boston based tech company that is not a household name. The senior manager of my department (who was in his mid-40s) who had the final say on hiring staff systems analysts/engineers had a de facto policy in place.

1) At least five years of total experience, but not fewer than two and no more than five at any one place. Someone with fewer than two at any one place was considering a job hopper - more than five, and they were viewed as too set in their ways and "inflexible."

This basically excluded all candidates 30+ who had worked their way up at one employer.

2) He'd only interview candidates from the top engineering schools at first. In Boston, we'd get passed over for bigger tech names from the top engineering schools. In Indianapolis, that meant Purdue. They would interview other options only if not receiving candidates from top schools.

IMO, if you're ten or even five years out of school, what you've done in the workforce since then is more important than a marquee academic brand.

3) You had to pass an analytical test to even be considered. This was a blanket policy set from the founder/CEO. Only about 15% of the candidates passed this test. This culled probably at least a dozen otherwise eminently qualified candidates at our satellite office we really liked and who probably would have succeeded, but could not be hired.

4) That senior manager was Indian, and preferred mostly H-1B Indian candidates. The workforce was HQ was predominantly Indian, with a smattering of white/Chinese men thrown in there too. Our local office was probably 50/50 Indian/US natives. There were only (I think) two women who passed through our satellite office and probably 15-20 people worked there while I was there. HQ had even fewer women.

If someone wasn't promoted to senior in five years or so, they were either given the boot or reassigned to other departments. A native US staff member who was employed in the role for four years was basically demoted to entry-level support specialist and reassigned to the customer facing help desk. Some other staff were reassigned the worst clients, then resigned. Others were fired for basically BS reasons.

I think the longest tenured employee had been with the company about eight years, was a senior, and probably 50+. Other than the site manager, no one at my satellite office was over 40 - most of us were under 35.
That's common in IT, unfortunately, but not in many other careers. In the last few weeks I have hired 2 new people, ages 35 and 50. Our average age (2,000 employees) is 51 now, with some people still here at 68-70. Our most recent retirees were 71 and 73. In some fields experience is far more important than youth. In IT a lot of the development work is meant to appeal to younger people so they want fresh new faces doing the work.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:15 AM
 
Location: USA
6,171 posts, read 4,948,777 times
Reputation: 10547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
That's common in IT, unfortunately, but not in many other careers. In the last few weeks I have hired 2 new people, ages 35 and 50. Our average age (2,000 employees) is 51 now, with some people still here at 68-70. Our most recent retirees were 71 and 73. In some fields experience is far more important than youth. In IT a lot of the development work is meant to appeal to younger people so they want fresh new faces doing the work.
This, and tech companies expect long hours, and an older person with a family and other commitments is most likely not going to want to do it. This is why you see the tech companies offices look more like college dorms with video games and unlimited pizza and coffee to encourage young workers to stay.

But there are plenty of 50+ workers in software development. These were the people smart enough to get out of the corporate environment and go freelance in their own businesses.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:52 AM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
There is this.

For 20 years my wages and earnings were flat lined.

NOW I'm ( we're....my OH and i) are in WAGE REGRESSION.
That is to say where once say $5/hour over minimum wage, with no raise as minimum increases, the gap shortens and we end up with wage regression, so we, instead of earning above minimum, suddenly become minimum wage workers.

My OH works as an adjunct to health care, but now is nearly simply a minimum wage worker for a job that should command more than minimum.

It's a tale of the times.

Not only do our wages regress, our COL has drastically increased, leaving us further in regression.

Doesn't leave as much to save for retirement, as that gap was important as if COL could be kept at minimum wage status, allowing to save all the "extra" for retirement.

As that gap disappears, it leaves far far less to sock away for retirement.

I hope I have adequately explained what i mean.

So who's fault do you think it is that the value of your labor declines or doesn't improve? Are you in a career with progression or a job?

Have you changed jobs? Have you been promoted? Have you learned something new?

I feel like I live in opposite land of the stories people post. I literally went from 8 bucks an hour with no benefits...to making double that as an intern student. To making double even that number WITH full benefits. And then through promotions my salary basically doubled yet AGAIN. I haven't had a single year in the work force without a 10 percrcent or more raise.

Literally the value of my labor probably went from 10k with no benefits to 120k+ including bonus, stock, health benefits, 401k matches, etc. My career value still has tremendous upside even after this. This career isn't like IT in the sense you become less attractive over tine. Here it ages like a fine wine and goes UP as you age.


I just don't see how someone in this country who's actually pushing themselves and working hard can literally look back at their production and results over 10 years and say "nothing changed". At what point do you share some responsibility for that?

You keep saying your spouse "should" make more. You "should" make more. What does that even mean? If you can't walk out the door and get more money elsewhere, then you're being paid market. Your job prospects and pay is essentially a personal stock market. If no ones willing to buy it at all....and the price of it is stagnant.....then you clearly cant command more you're just wishing and demanding more.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
20,955 posts, read 15,267,317 times
Reputation: 23722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
That's common in IT, unfortunately, but not in many other careers. In the last few weeks I have hired 2 new people, ages 35 and 50. Our average age (2,000 employees) is 51 now, with some people still here at 68-70. Our most recent retirees were 71 and 73. In some fields experience is far more important than youth. In IT a lot of the development work is meant to appeal to younger people so they want fresh new faces doing the work.
The tech company wasn't a household name, but they were well-known for their oddball hiring practices. I work in IT, but not for a tech company. I think I am the only person on my team under 50.

The thing is that workers in all fields seem to be put "out to pasture" more quickly than ever before and you have fewer years to save before you're ultimately pushed out of the labor force.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:07 AM
 
698 posts, read 383,032 times
Reputation: 854
The crisis may well be in not saving enough for being forced out or let go, rather than in not saving enough for retirement.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:09 AM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The tech company wasn't a household name, but they were well-known for their oddball hiring practices. I work in IT, but not for a tech company. I think I am the only person on my team under 50.

The thing is that workers in all fields seem to be put "out to pasture" more quickly than ever before and you have fewer years to save before you're ultimately pushed out of the labor force.
I would never expect to have a career longer than 20 years in tech and I would plan accordingly. My understanding from entry level salaries of high level IT professionals is you come in at a higher salary than most entry level graduates, and you really explode from there. You should be banking that well off, Fortunate salary for the future with the expectation that it won't last forever.

And as for the premise of this thread....

For most of human history, the retirement plan was die before 50. I think it's some insane media creation that maybe existed for a select few in certain industries in the golden age after ww2. Golfing at the country club and taking the grandkids to Disney and backpacking through Australia isn't reality for all but the highest earning people and disciplined investors. This type of retirement probably never was and never will be.

In other countries, you live with multiple generations of your family and they take care of their own. In America, we think we're somehow above that. We aren't. The federal reserve frittered away our advantage by printing too much and abusing its status to distort reality again and again.

People don't save anything and then expect some magic bullet. It doesn't exist.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:19 AM
 
Location: 76102
3,200 posts, read 1,483,983 times
Reputation: 9571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Many areas, particularly liberal coastal cities, provide enough social benefits that the poor there can live quite nicely. The middle class is largely being forced out and the major cities are becoming playgrounds for the affluent and the subsidized poor.
^^^^ this^^^^

I have a house with a fairly low $900 mortgage. A defined pension plan, money in 401 and SS. I would love to rent an apartment in my city if I am left a widow, but the rents are nuts, crazy high - 1 bedroom for 1700, etc.

I make just enough money to NOT quality for subsidy, but not enough to qualify for the 3x the rent formula most apartment complexes use these days.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:25 AM
 
2,787 posts, read 1,522,390 times
Reputation: 3102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
There is a big difference between paying taxes and preparing for retirement. Most of us pay taxes, pay into social security and also set aside money for emergencies and for retirement.
Taxes fund social services such as Medicaid and welfare payments, shelters, and othe ways to help the poor, the homeless, children. Not all of us have the capacity, skills, and health to prepare for retirement which requires cash flow. Yes they are 2 different things. I am willing to let my taxes be used for those who need help. That is the kind of government I want to live in.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:26 AM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschrief View Post
^^^^ this^^^^

I have a house with a fairly low $900 mortgage. A defined pension plan, money in 401 and SS. I would love to rent an apartment in my city if I am left a widow, but the rents are nuts, crazy high - 1 bedroom for 1700, etc.

I make just enough money to NOT quality for subsidy, but not enough to qualify for the 3x the rent formula most apartment complexes use these days.
What do you expect when you still have a mortgage after age 60?
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