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Old 10-24-2018, 04:36 PM
 
294 posts, read 65,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeko156 View Post
I agree with this except the part about moving - if you move to an area with cheaper houses, chances are wages will be lower, too.

I am not seeing a housing shortage so much as I am seeing people who can't afford them (myself included).
That does happen, but something has to give. Competing in an area where rents are regularly rising is really difficult to overcome too.
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:42 AM
 
18,743 posts, read 12,195,847 times
Reputation: 12308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
And also why Public Housing often has a short wait time and a Section 8 Voucher can have a wait time measured in years...

Section 8 came about as the answer to the projects where no one wanted to live... disperse low income individuals through out the community with the option of single family homes with the green lawn and picket fence.

Next to a Section 8 single family rental I managed was a husband and wife homeowner, his mother in law and 4 daughters... very nice family... they all lived in a small two bedroom home with two bathrooms and a converted basement from the Mother In Law...

My Section 8 family lived in the identical home next door and consisted of a family of 3... mother, son and daughter...

The working man said he would never be able to provide his kids with their own bedrooms... but if he quit his job Section 8 would qualify him for a 4 bedroom voucher instead of the 2 bedroom home he had now...

I realize this is but one single example but it does make one think...

A couple of years ago there was a story which crunched the numbers... a family would need the equivalent of 65k income to equal the benefits of assistance...

Rental assistance programs such as Section 8 have been around since the late 1930's. Congress just keeps rearranging or changing things to suit economic times, social conditions or whatever.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(housing)


Section 8 vouchers can be used for "project" housing, it is just that many prefer (for obvious reasons) to seek homes in private or other types of housing.


Speaking of "the projects" federal government long ago realized their mistakes with urban renewal of 1940's through 1970's creating all those housing estate blocks (projects). In fact the federal government no longer builds or finances construction of such purely low income housing. The new thing with liberals/progressives and government is to "integrate" poor/low income families into stable middle class and above areas. Hence the focus has been on providing funds for the various voucher programs that allow people (in theory) to live anywhere.


Whatever the good intentions of the post war era; by the 1970's and certainly the 1980's many of the housing "projects" became just as bad (or worse) in terms of crime, poverty and so forth than the slum areas that were cleared and the projects replaced.


The new mantra is "mixed use" housing. That is putting poor, low and middle income persons in the same areas in hopes the latter two will better themselves by example. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/m...c-housing.html
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:17 AM
 
25,058 posts, read 27,277,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfield View Post
The housing markets in California and Oregon are over regulated in the interest of protecting the environment.
"The environment" is the excuse given, but is a mere smokescreen for other selfish hidden agendas.
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:20 AM
 
25,058 posts, read 27,277,242 times
Reputation: 23257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonepa View Post
No. I have a home in Contra Costa County, CA. The cost of living is about 400% the US average, while the average house price is 600% of the national average. However, we still need software developers, market researchers, doctors, teachers, cops, firemen, fast food workers, grocery store workers, etc. Do you think they can live anywhere near where they work? There are no $200k/yr folks working at my local Whole Foods. But they do need to live somewhere and I guarantee it is a long way from where they work. This is the kind of housing that is in short supply.

So, no, these aren't illegal immigrants.
Unfortunately, the people of Contra Costa County, and many other places in California will say, "We need more housing but.....not here...or there or.....". By the time all the "buts" are factored in, you have a severe housing shortage.
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Old 10-25-2018, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 9,783,501 times
Reputation: 15549
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
The new thing with liberals/progressives and government is to "integrate" poor/low income families into stable middle class and above areas.
Makes sense; that way everyone can enjoy the higher crime rates, strewn trash, vandalism, and discarded used needles and condoms in parks.
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Old 10-25-2018, 09:17 AM
 
Location: la la land
28,223 posts, read 11,941,276 times
Reputation: 19924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
My Section 8 family lived in the identical home next door and consisted of a family of 3... mother, son and daughter...

The working man said he would never be able to provide his kids with their own bedrooms... but if he quit his job Section 8 would qualify him for a 4 bedroom voucher instead of the 2 bedroom home he had now...
I think he might have been kidding with you because there is no way in the world that Section 8 would give a family of 3 a voucher for a 4 bedroom house. Section 8 Housing Rules: How Many Bedrooms Will You Get? | Section 8 Facts
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:17 PM
 
26,121 posts, read 50,419,769 times
Reputation: 19672
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I think he might have been kidding with you because there is no way in the world that Section 8 would give a family of 3 a voucher for a 4 bedroom house. Section 8 Housing Rules: How Many Bedrooms Will You Get? | Section 8 Facts
I've managed a lot of Section 8 and Housing Voucher units over the years...

I have had family of 3 with a 3 bedroom voucher renting a 3 bedroom 2 bath home.

Mother, son and daughter...

It was not isolated and have found fraud and reported it in another case and nothing happened.

The single mother head of household with a daughter held a two bedroom voucher... she became pregnant and had another daughter but listed the child as a son... Tahje... when I rented to them with their 3 bedroom certificate it was son and daughter but the infant son is a girl and the scam worked.

Another interesting case is a father and mother refugees with their 2 daughters... very nice family and the father went to work each day.

The wife became pregnant and gave birth to twin girls... to the family was now 6 in my 2 bedroom 2 bath unit... Housing said they were UNDERHOUSED and issued a 3 bedroom certificate... it took several months fo them to find a 3 bedroom... in the mean time... Housing paid ALL OF THE FAMILY RENT and sent the family a check each month for $18 on top of paying the rent.

Another was a very hard working mom with two kids... she started driving for para transit and then got on with AC Transit... job with benefits... her portion of rent went from $82 when she was not working to her portion being $841 of the $850 rent with Housing paying $9... the last year.

Have seen a lot of things in 35 years managing residential rentals in the SF East Bay
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:23 PM
 
Location: la la land
28,223 posts, read 11,941,276 times
Reputation: 19924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I've managed a lot of Section 8 and Housing Voucher units over the years...

I have had family of 3 with a 3 bedroom voucher renting a 3 bedroom 2 bath home.

Mother, son and daughter...

It was not isolated and have found fraud and reported it in another case and nothing happened.

The single mother head of household with a daughter held a two bedroom voucher... she became pregnant and had another daughter but listed the child as a son... Tahje... when I rented to them with their 3 bedroom certificate it was son and daughter but the infant son is a girl and the scam worked.

Another interesting case is a father and mother refugees with their 2 daughters... very nice family and the father went to work each day.

The wife became pregnant and gave birth to twin girls... to the family was now 6 in my 2 bedroom 2 bath unit... Housing said they were UNDERHOUSED and issued a 3 bedroom certificate... it took several months fo them to find a 3 bedroom... in the mean time... Housing paid ALL OF THE FAMILY RENT and sent the family a check each month for $18 on top of paying the rent.

Another was a very hard working mom with two kids... she started driving for para transit and then got on with AC Transit... job with benefits... her portion of rent went from $82 when she was not working to her portion being $841 of the $850 rent with Housing paying $9... the last year.

Have seen a lot of things in 35 years managing residential rentals in the SF East Bay
I don't disagree, a family with two children not of the same sex can get a 3 bedroom voucher. And yes a family of 6 exceeds the guidelines for a two bedroom apartment and I'm pretty sure you could lie about the sex of a baby to get a larger place, but why didn't you report it? It's not even feasible that HUD could go door to door and do 'gender checks' to make sure people weren't lying, but they might have been able to act on the information had you given it to them.
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:47 PM
 
26,121 posts, read 50,419,769 times
Reputation: 19672
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I don't disagree, a family with two children not of the same sex can get a 3 bedroom voucher. And yes a family of 6 exceeds the guidelines for a two bedroom apartment and I'm pretty sure you could lie about the sex of a baby to get a larger place, but why didn't you report it? It's not even feasible that HUD could go door to door and do 'gender checks' to make sure people weren't lying, but they might have been able to act on the information had you given it to them.
It was not apparent until the child's 2nd birthday and I let the Housing Manager know in writing... nothing came of it as the parent said Housing had made a mistake but she told others she was going to do what she had to do to get her 3 bedroom house...

I have lots of Housing related Vignettes...

One of my disabled tenants with Sickle Cell passed away... never had a tenant pass away... I promptly notified housing return receipt of the tenants passing and asking for instructions regarding her 19 year old son who was on the lease.

The checks kept coming month after month... at the time of the annual inspection the worker got quite upset with me saying I was accepting money I was not entitled as the Certificate Holder passed and I would have to pay it back...

I then showed her my letter with return receipt notifying Housing within 3 days of the date of death asking for guidance... she said she would get back to me... nothing happened for several more months and then I received a letter saying due to death of certificate holder the contract was being terminated and the adult son does not qualify to continue... all I can say is I did everything I am required and could prove it and that was the end of it...

When I started with Housing... Housing supplied the contract and rental agreement... it was standardized.

My longest tenancy with Housing goes back to 1988... Housing has lost all records from inception to 2009... no original rental agreement exists...

My only point is to show anything is possible and as a property manager you need to make sure you have impeccable records and comply 100% of the time... if you are HUD... it is hit or miss without consequences.

HUD workers come and go... positions change, transfers... continuity is fast becoming a thing of the past in business... just a steady turnover of the work force.

At one time I was on the Housing Provider Advisory Board... it was something the Director had done elsewhere in facilitating a partnership providing families with clean and affordable housing...

Really looking forward to it and received my acceptance and welcome letter... showed up for the first meeting and no one was there... the Director had accepted a position doing the same thing in Florida... go figure.
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Old 10-25-2018, 11:48 PM
 
Location: SoCal
2,216 posts, read 1,967,007 times
Reputation: 1774
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
If a bird doesn’t build a nest, does the market step in and create some sort of low income housing for the bird?

Think before post, and you might not say such ridiculous things.
If a bird has been killed off by humans, and their habitat destroyed and birds sent off to live in zoo then eventually when one sees what has been going on then the market does intervene. This attitude is what's leading to mass extension of species when one only thinks about themselves, and forget that everything one has comes from someone else at some point.
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