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Old 11-22-2017, 02:22 PM
 
6,815 posts, read 4,408,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeksitter View Post
Look to an area with a shrinking population for a supply of affordable housing....
Exactly! We need more people here in the small-town Midwest. Chicago, Minneapolis, university-towns, lakeside/tourist enclaves and state-capitals are doing OK. Most other places are struggling. Houses routinely have to be insured for 150% of market value, because it would cost considerably more to rebuild them, than they're worth. We need people - homeowners and renters, members of the Daughters of the American Revolution and fresh immigrants. And yes, we need Freemkt and Perma Bear!
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
If a bird doesn’t build a nest, does the market step in and create some sort of low income housing for the bird?

Think before post, and you might not say such ridiculous things.

Fortunately, government does not regulate avian nest-building, and birds are sufficiently mobile that an ample supply of FREE nesting materials exists for them. Unlike developers, birds do not need government permits to build nests.
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peasy973 View Post
It's a government failure caused by corporate/capitalistic/elitist interests. The reason not enough low-income/moderately priced housing is not being built is because not enough incentives for it from the government side and capitalistic side of the equation. When zoning/planning changes by government either local or larger (state,federal) they are usually not to the benefit of the common man but those with the resources to dictate policy.

If today's policy were place in a post WW2 America in the late 40s through the 60s then the US would not be where it is in the world now in the world's current economic structure.

I don't view it as government failure - rather than failing, government has wildly succeeded in giving the homeowner majority pretty much what it wants.
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
There are still many places in the USA with no housing shortage and plenty of affordable rentals. Too many people that choose to live in an expensive area without the financial means, and neither the government nor local developers are going to pay to cover that big gap. The victims of gentrification losing their rental to development or investors are the victims of progress, those that move here without a good job lined up are victims of their own questionable judgement. These states have median home prices less than half of Seattle, and less than 1/3 of some eastside cities.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/11/amer...e-in-2017.html

California homeowners decided that "first movers" should be secure in their homes and not priced out by newcomers - so they passed Prop 13.

Why shouldn't first movers who rent have similar protection from being priced out by newcomers?
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
sounds like physically able people failed capitalism... if they are able to work but choose not to, how is it anyone's fault that they can't afford to join the market?

the "market" does not mean people are entitled to participate by breathing air

I'm not talking about lazy bums, I'm talking about people who work for say $8 per hour.
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I'm not talking about lazy bums, I'm talking about people who work for say $8 per hour.
Those are the people I am talking about...

why are you limiting them to a life time of $8/hr? Why do you not think that they can learn skills that get them paid more? that they are intelligent and motivated enough to not earn $10/hr, $15/hr, $20/hr, $X/hr over time?
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
I will interpret this to what the OP is really trying to say:

"I cannot afford housing in an area I desire to live, which happens to be an area with high COL and housing prices. I am entitled to live in any area of the US I want to, and economics should not be a barrier. Since I cannot afford housing int eh area I desire, there must be a housing shortage because I think they should just keep building and building housing until the supply is so great, I can finally afford it."

I'm saying the same thing California homeowners said with Prop 13:

Incumbent residents of an area should not be priced out by newcomers.

Nobody has a right to move to an area they cannot afford. People living in an area they can afford should not be priced out by outsiders.
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
1,956 posts, read 1,995,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
"The president of an employer group in California's Silicon Valley offered advice about housing to leaders in Oregon's Silicon Forest, where a 2016 study estimates that Washington County is at least 14,000 homes short for lower-income people."

Has the market (and capitalism) failed, or has government failed?
Has capitalism failed? No, capitalism is more or less working as it is supposed to. Putting a supreme value on commercial interests compared to other concerns.

Has the government failed? Yes. The government is basically the only entity with the resources, power and mandate to regulate large swaths of economic activity on a macro scale.

Your housing shortage is just as much a result of a rising disparity of income (disappearing middle classes) as traditional market forces and a lack of initiative on the part of the government to offer the kind of incentives for builders to develop low income housing.
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:28 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,708,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Neither the market nor the government owes anyone a living or a home.

California homeowners disagree with you and they have Prop 13 to prove they're right and you're not.
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:36 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,708,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzanman View Post
Has capitalism failed? No, capitalism is more or less working as it is supposed to. Putting a supreme value on commercial interests compared to other concerns.

Has the government failed? Yes. The government is basically the only entity with the resources, power and mandate to regulate large swaths of economic activity on a macro scale.

Your housing shortage is just as much a result of a rising disparity of income (disappearing middle classes) as traditional market forces and a lack of initiative on the part of the government to offer the kind of incentives for builders to develop low income housing.

I view it as government success, not government failure. Since rent-seeking homeowners don't want "additional" or "more affordable" housing in their neighborhoods - they want government to prop up their property values - government has successfully delivered to homeowners pretty much what they want.
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