Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The op began with a statement about taxes going up for middle class and down for rich, so I'll start there.
According to the OMB, the top 20% now pay 95% of the taxes. The top 1% pays nearly 1/2 of all taxes. There's just not much meat left on those rich peoples' bones for the Feds to eat. If 95% is not the top 20%'s fair share, what the heck is? If we raised to 100% do you really think that would solve anything? What about the nearly 1/2 of Americans who pay no net federal income taxes. Is that fair?
Even if the Feds confiscated 100% of the wealthiest American total assets, it wouldn't make a dent in the total deficit, so we cant tax our way out of this mess. Its clearly not a revenue problem.
Since the top 20% have been fleeced, the easiest way the Feds can keep increasing revenues to the Government is to also go after the bottom 80%. Or, they could reduce spending...Not gonna happen, so the bottom 80% needs to be ready to bend over like the rest of us.
IMHO, its not rich versus middle class, or middle class versus those on welfare (or other Government assistance), its all of us against the Government to reduce spending...by a LOT. I'd give some thoughts on that here, but I dont want to write a crazy long post and bore everyone to sleep.
Then, the op suggested now is the time to fix welfare. Well, if he really meant just welfare, even if we totally eliminated it, it would hardly make any noticeable dent in overall spending. Now, if he/she means all Government assistance, then he's onto something. ALL spending needs to be reduced...by a LOT.
I liked the Penney (sp?) plan where every area of spending would be reduced by the same nominal % for say 20 years consecutively, and that supposedly would bring our deficit down to a manageable level. Why cant we do that?
According to the OMB, the top 20% now pay 95% of the taxes. The top 1% pays nearly 1/2 of all taxes. There's just not much meat left on those rich peoples' bones for the Feds to eat. If 95% is not the top 20%'s fair share, what the heck is? If we raised to 100% do you really think that would solve anything? What about the nearly 1/2 of Americans who pay no net federal income taxes. Is that fair?
That 95% is not true, that's a fake number put out by Mulvaney. Taxes have not gone up or down since 2014 when every expert agreed that the top 20% paid 86.78% of all taxes, but what Mulvaney doesn't bother to mention is that the income level of the lower end of that 20% is a whopping $77,000 Not to mention far, far less of the income of the top 5% is subject to taxes since most of it is not wage income and thus it is eligible for numerous tax exemptions and deductions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus
Even if the Feds confiscated 100% of the wealthiest American total assets, it wouldn't make a dent in the total deficit, so we cant tax our way out of this mess. Its clearly not a revenue problem.
So you solve it by giving the rich the biggest tax cut in history?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus
IMHO, its not rich versus middle class, or middle class versus those on welfare (or other Government assistance), its all of us against the Government to reduce spending...by a LOT. I'd give some thoughts on that here, but I dont want to write a crazy long post and bore everyone to sleep.
It's definitely the rich vs everyone else in the US, don't kid yourself. Lobbyists, the Kochs, and the Mercer's wrote this tax bill and they didn't write to help people who have to get up and go to work everyday.
So seems our taxes are going to go up for the middle class and down for the rich.. So with that said, lets fix the welfare system. Here is my thoughts on what to do.
Work 20 hour week min job at any location. Get on some program to prevent further births of unattended accidents. Random drug and drink tests. Max you can stay on the welfare system and housing is 2 years. By then you should be able to gain enough experience in the work force to get full time and better housing.
So any ideas on what to do next? Think if you slap some pretty good restrictions on these programs, it will help our economics in jobs.?
They don't get any welfare now. If they have citizen kids the kids can get benefits but not the parents. If they go to an ER they can get emergency medical treatment but that is part of EMTALA and has been the law since 1986.
This isn't true, the US military always needs new people. In 2015 in the midst of the US Army drawdown from 565,000 to 450,000 personnel they still had recruitment goals of about 60k new soldiers that they struggled to meet.
They might not want you because you have drug problems, mental health issues, a tattoo on your face, physical limitations etc. but I'd love to hear you tell me what year any branch of the US military was doing everything they could to keep people out because of no room.
Um, I beg to differ with you. I was supposed to go in the Army Reserve in 1991. I was on the Delayed Entry Program and was slated to go into the Monterey School of Languages after finishing basic at Fort McClellan. That was in May. In October, the troops were coming home and I was told by the medical guys in Oakland (where I was supposed to ship out from) that they were supposed to do everything they could do to not bring in new recruits. I got booted out by having "flat feet" in that last check in October, which I certainly did not have in May.
In addition, I saw the news articles and remember hearing on TV about the vets the military was drumming out.
All of those are welfare fraud, and should be reported so the person can be prosecuted
I'm retired LE and I tried to refer a few cases of EBT fraud to HHS. They were totally uninterested. Eventually I found out that they don't care about fraud and don't want to hear about it. There was even a newspaper article on it.
health insurance-not one politician wants to address why health insurance costs are so high in this country.they like us arguing with each other and turning on each other about it while they take bribes from healthcare lobbies to keep costs up and their pockets lined.
Look at the ACA- it's a GREAT deal if you're poor, it's AWFUL if you're middle middle class and you're paying for it if you're rich.Polticians love these 3 classes of people arguing amongst themselves.So long as they don't say things like "hey why the hell can't I buy my Rx from a different country that's exactly the same at a much cheaper price?" Instead of "those rich people are scum for not wanting to pay for my insurance" we should be asking them why they're bending over for lobbyists at our expense.
minimum wage can price people out of jobs.
no politician will say it but some people aren't worth min wage for certain jobs.
people who want a higher minimum wage love to talk about places like costco pointing out how well they pay relative to similar jobs in other companies. the completely ignore the fact that they have a much higher caliber employee than those other companies. there are only so many of those people to go around.someone isn't worth 15 bucks (or more in costco's case) merely by existing. anyone who thinks they are should start a fast food place,higher the absolute dregs of society pay them 20 bucks an hour and see how well that works out for them.
assistance for college is great- to a point.
loans are way too accessible now. they should be used for people to actually better themselves not to borrow 100k to go party for 4 years and study nonsense. when we tell people they need college and that any degree is worth the money, lend them all the money they want that they don't have to pay back for years tuituon goes through the roof.
we also need to be spending money on trade schools.
affirmative action-don't make me laugh. it's legal racism.
I'm not advocating for slave labor. the education and infrastructure in this country sucks.that needs to be addressed and is where money can be spent extremely efficiently.sticking our head in the sand with trash education, generations of people dependent on the gov't and the myth everyone is a special snowflake or valuable employee merely by existing doesn't get us anywhere.
Minimum wage is a fake debate that diverts politicians from having to discuss the real underlying issue, because that issue is analogous to an electrified third rail.
That 95% is not true, that's a fake number put out by Mulvaney. Taxes have not gone up or down since 2014 when every expert agreed that the top 20% paid 86.78% of all taxes, but what Mulvaney doesn't bother to mention is that the income level of the lower end of that 20% is a whopping $77,000 Not to mention far, far less of the income of the top 5% is subject to taxes since most of it is not wage income and thus it is eligible for numerous tax exemptions and deductions.
So you solve it by giving the rich the biggest tax cut in history?
It's definitely the rich vs everyone else in the US, don't kid yourself. Lobbyists, the Kochs, and the Mercer's wrote this tax bill and they didn't write to help people who have to get up and go to work everyday.
The stats I gave were provided by our Federal Government. Let's say your private .com source is more accurate, and the top 20% is paying "only" 86.78%. Is that not their fair share in your World? What % should they be paying? Should the bottom 80% pay no Federal income taxes? Please provide a direct, simple, short, and concise answer to these questions so we know where you stand.
I didn't "solve it by giving the rich the biggest tax cut in history?" Please show me where I said that.
I proposed a solution of reducing spending by a nominal percent across the board like the Penney plan has, and keeping the nominal cuts constant, and in place, for ~20 years. Perhaps a 2% reduction on everything. Why is this plan not a logical way to start doing something to fix the spending problem in a bipartisan way?
So far, you offered no proposed solutions. Your opinions do nothing to solve the problems.
Revenues to the Government have increased for a few years now, but they continue to outspend the increases. My solution is based upon the premise that we dont have a taxing problem, we have a spending problem. Do you have any ideas on how to reduce spending in a bi-partisan way that might have some chance of being adopted by both political parties in Washington DC?
This "spending problem" babble is right-wing propaganda ginned up to further the fairy tale meme that the wealthy are unfairly burdened by taxation. In fact, taxes do not affect the lifestyles of the wealthy to any significant degree at all. They have giant piles of money sitting around both before and after taxes. They have to spend time thinking up things to do with all that cash, so no need to feel sorry for them on any other account.
All of those are welfare fraud, and should be reported so the person can be prosecuted
If it was just one person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
And how do you know that? Are these people you hang out with or do you just drive around and when you see a person who looks poor you invent these narratives about them?
Where I live we have an area of the city called Colonia. The area is predominantly low income. Lots of government housing in the area. My wife grew up in Colonia. For over 50 years Colonia was a gang infested section of the city. From the 1950's and into the 1990's prostitution, drugs, anything else seemed to come from this part of the city. Growing up we always stayed away. In high school I worked for a drain cleaning service and we were told not to do jobs in that area when it got dark.
As our city has grown and land became more valuable, developers started building in the area surrounding Colonia. Back in 2000 a new development opened up and it started to change the Colonia area. A few years ago some of the apartment buildings that were part of housing were torn down and the people were moved to new buildings in another part of the city. This is a slow process and many still live there, and the gang has some influence, although the city created a gang injunction maybe 20 years ago that has stopped much of the gang in our area.
My wife has relatives that never made it out of the Colonia neighborhood. Since we live in a nice, but older part of our city, I did not think much of the Colonia area. Figured because of what is happening that over time the area would clean itself up.
Three years ago we were at a Christmas party hosted by my wife's family. I was listening in on a conversation that her cousins were having. One of them talked about the old neighborhood. I ended up listening to her and was amazed at what was happening in the housing projects. Several of us got into the conversation. As someone that did not grow up down there I found out how naive I was about things.
Yes all those things happen and have happened for many years. If you ever wonder why someone in housing is able to drive a new car or SUV, now you know.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
