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Old 12-21-2017, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 606,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cedarite View Post
States are using the block grants for all kinds of things that aren't actually welfare at this point. I would encourage people on all sides of this issue to check it out...
"Block grants" is code-speak for let the foxes decide what's best for the hens in the hen house. It's an open door to massive local corruption of the original intents and purposes of the moneys being allocated.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:39 AM
 
440 posts, read 200,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclist1968 View Post
Get the rich off of welfare?? that will save the most $$ as there are more rich people on it than the poor, by far. Also make the rich pay their fair share of taxes
What is the “fair share”. How much tax should each person pay?
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Concord, NC
1,201 posts, read 1,878,207 times
Reputation: 784
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
So seems our taxes are going to go up for the middle class and down for the rich.. So with that said, lets fix the welfare system. Here is my thoughts on what to do.
According to a CNN link, on their main page, it looks like after tax income for the middle class will go up and either up or down for the rich. We'll see how accurate that calculater will be in the next few years. Not sure how CNN would get it wrong and everyone else right. If thats the case, then I dont know how anyone would ever trust CNN again.

Use this calculator to see how the tax bill affects your paycheck - CNNPolitics
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:58 AM
 
2,794 posts, read 1,520,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post

President Obama weakened a lot of this.
No, that’s not accurate.

Obama provided a waiver for those states who could provide equivalent workfare results without being forced to fit inside more narrow rules. Only Governor Kasich actually applied for this waiver, btw. And it wasn’t approved.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:25 AM
 
3,531 posts, read 2,183,471 times
Reputation: 2636
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestieJeff View Post
Let's talk about each of your points:

1) Work 20 hours per week.
Who watches their kids while they are gone? How do they get transportation to/from said work? Poor people have to solve these types of problems. Primarily, when you add caring for kids to the mix it gets complex. When you say "just figure it out, make it work", the kids always get the short end of that stick which perpetuates the cycle of dependence on the system.

2) Get on some program to prevent further births.
Specifics please?? Forced sterilization would not be tolerated so let's scratch that one. Really the only option here is some incentivization program which if you hate welfare, you'd probably hate that too. The problem with births is that one of the most pleasurable things to do (and cheapest, which helps if you're poor) causes them.

3) Random drug testing.
I'm not against this, but many states have already done this and proven it costs more to perform the tests and administer the programs than is saved. So if you want to do it out of some moral principle, that is fine, just realize it is a net cost.

At the end of the day, you always have to to answer the question, what happens when they "run out"? Do we kick them out on the street? Kick their kids out on the street? What happens then? The kids have close to zero chance of improving their lives at that point. People will definitely steal from people before they allow themselves to starve.

I believe the long term answer is helping people improve their lives. Education is key. Giving people a real shot at improving their lives will give them a chance to get off the system. Unfortunately I think that comes often with more assistance. People with kids need to have affordable childcare options to be able to work or attend school, just as one example.

There will always be some leeches and people with mental illness, addiction, etc. that aren't really able to be saved, but I believe most people want to have a purpose and do well in life and given the opportunity can improve their lives.
I just want to add on to an excellent post.

#2: It's a racist myth that poor people have lots of babies as a way to milk welfare; this is an invention of Ronald Reagan. Poor households have children at a rate that's maybe 20% higher than middle incomes, and much of that is due to having less reliable access to health care and contraception. Increasing access is a great measure to take, and one the poor and leftists are entirely on board for.

#3: Welfare drug usage is another myth. In actuality, drug and alcohol abuse increases with income. This might seem counter-intuitive, but it actually makes a lot of sense for one key reason: drugs are expensive!

#1: Welfare is consumed almost entirely by four groups of people: those who are too old to work, too young to work, too disabled to work, or are already working.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 606,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1921 View Post
What is the “fair share”. How much tax should each person pay?
Tax policy tends to believe that burdens based on a blend of both the wealth distribution curve and the income distribution curve are appropriate, with the former carrying more weight that the latter. The object of the game is not the flatten the individual burdens of taxation completely, but at least to keep them from a state of wild inequalities.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 606,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
#1: Welfare is consumed almost entirely by four groups of people: those who are too old to work, too young to work, too disabled to work, or are already working.
Might as well point out also that they are mostly white and disproportionately female.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:58 AM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
3,990 posts, read 1,954,584 times
Reputation: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
So seems our taxes are going to go up for the middle class and down for the rich.. So with that said, lets fix the welfare system. Here is my thoughts on what to do.

Work 20 hour week min job at any location. Get on some program to prevent further births of unattended accidents. Random drug and drink tests. Max you can stay on the welfare system and housing is 2 years. By then you should be able to gain enough experience in the work force to get full time and better housing.

So any ideas on what to do next? Think if you slap some pretty good restrictions on these programs, it will help our economics in jobs.?
i dont think so... according to the cbo, entitlement programs costs us more than a $trillion whereas public assistance costs us about $80 billion (still a lot of money) per year.

whats with this classic anger against the less fortunate because the rich is causing us middlers hardship (misplaced blame much ?) ?

i think section-8 requires a percentage to be paid by the recipient (depends on hud median household spending on housing and bills -- i think in boston its 38% (i have to confirm with my boy)) and maybe supplemental income beneficiaries are required to show w-2's at the end of the year to still qualify.

theres also welfare programs you are not considering like federal farm subsidies (where are you gonna' get your carrots and milk when farms hit draught/flood); federal pell grant (how are our kids gonna' subsidize education; its not much but it helps); hud-1 loans (conventional loans have high interest rates which makes it hard to buy in big metros); headstart; chip; medicare; elderly services; free/reduced school lunch; housing for those with disabilities; foster homes; job corp.; ...

Last edited by stanley-88888888; 12-21-2017 at 11:17 AM..
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:22 AM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
3,990 posts, read 1,954,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
make it a combo income match + income insurance system with a minimum of 20 hours worked to stay in the system

they work 20 hours but make $700, the welfare will give them $1300 to get them to $2,000/month (not sure what it is now but it seems like an even number)

they change jobs and work 30 hours and make $1,500, then they get $500 welfare dollars.
maybe they want to stay at 30 hours instead of 40 hours and get $0 welfare dollars because they would still be "netting" $2,000/month. But, some allowances for "abuse" needs to be built in since it'll happen.

at $2,000 or whatever income, they would "make" enough to not get as much food/housing subsidies
one of my boys tells me that at target (i assume other retailers too) they look for temp seasonal workers for the holidays because some section-8 recipients will be over the threshold and will have to move if they take extra holiday hours towards the 4th quarter of the year.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:37 AM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
3,990 posts, read 1,954,584 times
Reputation: 2462
there are countries that either have the capacity but do not believe in public welfare or impoverished nations that do not have the government ability to create programs for the ultra-needy.

day-to-day life in those places is scary since if you are moderately well-to-do, you are a much bigger target. i have a friend from lagos who told me that a section of the walls surrounding her home (many houses in africa, caribbean, south-america, ... are protected by walls/gates) was knocked in and people came in to loot their home.
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