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Old 12-21-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
4,347 posts, read 2,614,903 times
Reputation: 3819

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Quote:
Originally Posted by djohnslaw View Post
1)people's kids arent toddlers forever. at some point they have to go to school and they can easily work 20 hours a week. people shouldn't keep pumping out kids they can't afford.of course there's the catch 22- you don't want to reward people pumping out more kids, but you don't want to punish those kids either.
People who have mental diseases simply will NOT be able to hold down a job. That's why they lost their jobs and got evicted in the first place. Ditto with vets going through PTSD. The VA can't take all of them, which is why some of them are on the streets. Note these cases have nothing to do with kids


Quote:
Originally Posted by djohnslaw View Post
2)the problem isn't that sex is pleasurable and "free". the problem is stupid people make stupid decisions. i doubt smart people with money have less sex than poor people. it's just on average they make much better decisions especially when it concerns those with serious life consequences. there's a reason poor people on average have more kids- bad decision making.
Those without kids on the streets still need assistance


of course it's not politically correct to say this. and when someone does say this people love to talk about women who were married with 3 kids, husband died (or something along those lines) and now they're in a very bad unfortunate situation. as sad as stuff like that is, they're the exceptions and exceptions don't prove rules.[/quote]Glad to hear this. However, there are more of these situations than you think


Quote:
Originally Posted by djohnslaw View Post
3) you're right but i think this could still be done a lot cheaper than it's currently being done.
I believe the whole point was it really can't




Quote:
Originally Posted by djohnslaw View Post
i agree with you we need much better education. we also need trade schools. everyone isn't cut out for college (and that's not an insult) I know plenty of people who are mechanics electricians plumbers etc and make good money. i also know plenty of people who went to some nonsense college, majored in something worthless, owe 6 figures and want to blame others for their bad situation. mindlessly letting people borrow crazy amounts of money for college serves to drive up tuition rates and little else.that money could be spent a lot better.
I always lumped college together with trade schools. If that's technically not true, then I stand corrected. Still, I wonder what's to keep those in involved in trade schools from jacking up the rates like they did with college tuitions.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 602,948 times
Reputation: 2723
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888 View Post
... according to the cbo, entitlement programs costs us more than a $trillion whereas public assistance costs us about $80 billion (still a lot of money) per year.
Unlike outright assistance programs, there are very significant receipts associated with major entitlement programs. They are in fact called entitlements because eventual beneficiaries have prepaid for the benefits they one day stand to receive.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:08 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
4,347 posts, read 2,614,903 times
Reputation: 3819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
Most of these are good ideas, but there are several problems most of these caused by the Republicans. Work a 20 hour/week job doing what? How do you afford housing? In many areas, the housing cost is astronomical and the national minimum wage hasn't increased in years. It's still $7.25/hour, while rents for an apt/house are at least $900 or $1000/month in many areas. And birth control programs? Also a great idea, except Republicans are defunding Planned Parenthood and removing contraception from insurance coverage because their loving God tells them to
Somebody mentioned a scene from some movie... a group is figuring out how to raise enough money for a program that looks after the babies of teenage mothers so they can finish high school. A newcomer asks why they aren't distributing contraceptives. Everyone in the group is shocked, saying they can't do that. That'll just encourage the children to have sex! The newcomer points out that they're dealing with teenage mothers. They're ALREADY having sex!


Somebody on Quora pointed out that some of them will choose "morality" over outcome b/c of their beliefs, but rather than me posting, here's a link to what was posted that's much better than what I could've written....
https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-fi...anny?srid=dgIM
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:15 AM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,031,855 times
Reputation: 2071
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888 View Post
one of my boys tells me that at target (i assume other retailers too) they look for temp seasonal workers for the holidays because some section-8 recipients will be over the threshold and will have to move if they take extra holiday hours towards the 4th quarter of the year.
so they working less to keep their benefits? Isnt the goal to work more and make more vs just making less so you wont have to pay full price of rent and be lazy?
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:23 AM
 
6,308 posts, read 4,774,343 times
Reputation: 8437
Quote:
Originally Posted by damba View Post
No, that’s not accurate.

Obama provided a waiver for those states who could provide equivalent workfare results without being forced to fit inside more narrow rules. Only Governor Kasich actually applied for this waiver, btw. And it wasn’t approved.
That's a fancy way of saying Obama weakened a lot of this.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:23 AM
 
437 posts, read 199,077 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17thAndK View Post
Tax policy tends to believe that burdens based on a blend of both the wealth distribution curve and the income distribution curve are appropriate, with the former carrying more weight that the latter. The object of the game is not the flatten the individual burdens of taxation completely, but at least to keep them from a state of wild inequalities.
That is not fully answering the question. What specifically is a “fair share”. Quantify it for us.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:32 AM
 
3,705 posts, read 3,030,324 times
Reputation: 10030
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888 View Post
i dont think so... according to the cbo, entitlement programs costs us more than a $trillion whereas public assistance costs us about $80 billion (still a lot of money) per year.

whats with this classic anger against the less fortunate because the rich is causing us middlers hardship (misplaced blame much ?) ?

i think section-8 requires a percentage to be paid by the recipient (depends on hud median household spending on housing and bills -- i think in boston its 38% (i have to confirm with my boy)) and maybe supplemental income beneficiaries are required to show w-2's at the end of the year to still qualify.

theres also welfare programs you are not considering like federal farm subsidies (where are you gonna' get your carrots and milk when farms hit draught/flood); federal pell grant (how are our kids gonna' subsidize education; its not much but it helps); hud-1 loans (conventional loans have high interest rates which makes it hard to buy in big metros); headstart; chip; medicare; elderly services; free/reduced school lunch; housing for those with disabilities; foster homes; job corp.; ...
Yeah, your points are well thought out---but---it's way more ego lifting to step on those who are lower on the rungs of life, some of these who post here are probably doing so from the comfort of a very nice home, alternately posting while planning their winter getaway, feeling the glow of personal achievement while beating on those who have nothing.

Some people are so imbued with their own success that they feel entitled to chastise others for their perceived trespasses. It's not that they are so hurting from the taking of their tax money, no, they openly brag here about their success in the investment space, they write about their real estate holdings, ski condos in Utah, their stockpiling of accumulated wealth, their expensive living style in retirement, and all the while sharpening their knives for the eviscerating of their enemies, those with nothing.

Complaining, for them, has become a type of sport, I've often thought they may take to the idea of a Colosseum like structure in which the poor would be running for their lives while their betters flog them senseless from BMW-like chariots. I'm kidding of course--but--the vitriol written here is a first clue to the fact of some people never having enough of their nonsensical "stuff," no, they can never be satisfied until the downtrodden are duly punished, and all that stems from some kind of deranged notion of themselves, better known as an over inflated ego.

A wise man once noted the problem of ego as something which destroys our humanity:

When people get taken over by the ego to such an extent, there is nothing else in their mind except the ego. They can no longer feel or sense their humanity - what they share with other human beings, or even with other life forms on the planet. They are so identified with concepts in their minds that other human beings become concepts as well.

Eckhart Tolle
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:50 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
3,978 posts, read 1,944,710 times
Reputation: 2440
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17thAndK View Post
Unlike outright assistance programs, there are very significant receipts associated with major entitlement programs. They are in fact called entitlements because eventual beneficiaries have prepaid for the benefits they one day stand to receive.
yup, fair enough. but what we are seeing now is that people are receiving more than they are putting in. i got a social security booklet a few years ago which indicated that i am projected to receive 70% of what i should be receiving benefits if i retire on time (which is why they will push back retirement age). people are living longer and healthier which is a good thing but it is not a bank account.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Reno, NV
459 posts, read 143,449 times
Reputation: 1561
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
So seems our taxes are going to go up for the middle class and down for the rich.. So with that said, lets fix the welfare system. Here is my thoughts on what to do.

Work 20 hour week min job at any location. Get on some program to prevent further births of unattended accidents. Random drug and drink tests. Max you can stay on the welfare system and housing is 2 years. By then you should be able to gain enough experience in the work force to get full time and better housing.

So any ideas on what to do next? Think if you slap some pretty good restrictions on these programs, it will help our economics in jobs.?
Drug testing everyone on welfare costs far more than what it saves. Besides, what are you going to do with a positive test result? Make the kids go hungry, or put them in a foster home?

As for the rest of it, where you have been? The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA) was signed into law by then-President Bill Clinton. What you're suggesting is taking the current limits of PRWORA and making them much more stringent. Why? Is it out of a desire to punish poor people and make their miserable existence even more miserable?
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Northern panhandle WV
2,263 posts, read 1,751,509 times
Reputation: 4571
What welfare are you all talking about? as far as I know Welfare is SSI and you can only get it if you are poor and over 65, OR are disabled. So being disabled most cannot work at all. Those over 65 probably cannot work either. Also it is not easy to get SSI even if you are disabled you have to qualify as disabled by social security disability standards and it can take months to years to finally qualify. Which if you have NO income to begin with means you are probably dead by the time you do qualify.
Also being alcoholic or drug addicted is NOT considered a disability for the purpose of getting SSI.

Last edited by arwenmark; 12-21-2017 at 02:40 PM.. Reason: additional information added
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