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Old 12-22-2017, 04:09 AM
 
11,406 posts, read 5,887,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1921 View Post
The constant diatribes about Fox News is getting old. CNN and MSNBC are the same way when it comes to the liberal point of view, yet you and others making the fox comments fail to point that out.
So cite the misinformation coming out of CNN? Like any real news outlet, they occasionally make reporting errors where they publish retractions. Unlike Fox News, they don't just make things up. That's the whole disconnect in 2017. The college educated blue part of the country lives in a world of facts. The poorly educated Fox News viewers live in a world of mythology. When faced with facts that contradict the mythology, they chant "Fake News!". We're getting a ton of that in this thread.

The problem in the United States is ignorant people. That's what perpetuates the cycle of poverty.
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:23 AM
 
4,174 posts, read 2,788,828 times
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The thing is , even if Fox were to post anything negative about this administration, it would be underplayed and relegated to off peak viewing. The real function of the fourth estate should be to keep government honest. Not grease the skids for incompetence and failure and lies.

While the MSM is decidedly liberal, there are many outlets that take their responsibility quite seriously. And perform their function admirably. Fox does not! Breitbart does not! Even responsible conservative journalists will not defend either outlet.

Yes, all outlets in the rush to be first and break news, make mistakes. Some actually acknowledge when it happens and should be commended for that. Never heard of Breitbart printing a retraction.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:22 AM
 
440 posts, read 199,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
So cite the misinformation coming out of CNN? Like any real news outlet, they occasionally make reporting errors where they publish retractions. Unlike Fox News, they don't just make things up. That's the whole disconnect in 2017. The college educated blue part of the country lives in a world of facts. The poorly educated Fox News viewers live in a world of mythology. When faced with facts that contradict the mythology, they chant "Fake News!". We're getting a ton of that in this thread.

The problem in the United States is ignorant people. That's what perpetuates the cycle of poverty.
If you don’t see the bias in CNN, you are part of the problem.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:37 AM
 
4,174 posts, read 2,788,828 times
Reputation: 2629
There is bias, and then there is completely lack of journalistic integrity approaching propaganda.

I would find it difficult to rationalize state run media in the DPRK, Russia or China by calling it "bias".

I would prefer to see all news outlets hold any politician to the highest standards. I would be amazed to see Fox News even make an attempt to hold this administration to those standards.

To be fair, if they did, their viewers would revolt and smash their Keurigs!
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:40 AM
 
272 posts, read 104,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I can't believe the % of people who are in favor of random drug testing. Do they not care at all about the Big Brother state? If you don't trust the government, you sure as h*ll don't want them doing drug testing. This is a perfect example of how we lose our rights. It starts with a maligned group (the homeless, welfare recipients, etc.), then next thing you know, they find other reasons to test more people. How can people not see this? It's classic stepping stones technique. Get people to give up their rights in step by step fashion by dividing them against each other.
i don't trust the gov't and i don't want them in my business. i also don't get a monthly stipend from them.
if i ever needed welfare i'd be fine with taking a drug test to get the money. the premise behind welfare (and im using this to include all forms of govt help- food stamps section 8 etc) is that you can't afford necessities on your own. it seems pretty reasonable to require you not be wasting money on drugs and that you are lucid so you can better yourself and get out of the bad situation you're in.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:43 AM
 
272 posts, read 104,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
And it doesn't always work, or for whatever reason people, yes even rich people, occasionally have unprotected sex, that is how real life works whether you like it or not is irrelevant.
why do people like you always try to use the exception to prove the rule?

it's like when someone says a fat person could have some bad lucky thyroid condition. while true 99+ pct of the time when you're fat it's your own fault.

poor people don't have some sort of disproportionate bad luck when it comes to birth control failing when used properly. and if anything poor people and ANYONE not ready to be a parent should be extra careful with regards to making sure it's used properly.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:44 AM
 
440 posts, read 199,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
There is bias, and then there is completely lack of journalistic integrity.

I would find it difficult to rationalize state run media in the DPRK, Russia or China by calling it "bias".

I would prefer to see all news outlets hold any politician to the highest standards. I would be amazed to see Fox News even make an attempt to hold this administration to those standards
There is little difference between CNN/MSNBC and Fox. Media has stopped reporting the news and presents in a way as to how they want you to think. Having any kind of bias as a news orginization means a complete lack of integrity.
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Old 12-22-2017, 06:48 AM
 
11,406 posts, read 5,887,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djohnslaw View Post
i don't trust the gov't and i don't want them in my business. i also don't get a monthly stipend from them.
if i ever needed welfare i'd be fine with taking a drug test to get the money. the premise behind welfare (and im using this to include all forms of govt help- food stamps section 8 etc) is that you can't afford necessities on your own. it seems pretty reasonable to require you not be wasting money on drugs and that you are lucid so you can better yourself and get out of the bad situation you're in.
So you were home schooled? You never drive on public roads? Unless you are a survivalist living in the boonies off the grid, you're enjoying the benefits of living in a social democracy.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:01 AM
 
11,406 posts, read 5,887,059 times
Reputation: 21132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1921 View Post
There is little difference between CNN/MSNBC and Fox. Media has stopped reporting the news and presents in a way as to how they want you to think. Having any kind of bias as a news orginization means a complete lack of integrity.
Wow! Really?

Other than Fox and the nutty right wing conspiracy web sites, everybody else is out there fact checking the steady stream of lies coming out of Washington DC. For example, here's the New York Times recent collection on Trump.

Quote:
Jan 21, 2017.“I wasn't a fan of Iraq. I didn't want to go into Iraq.” (He was for an invasion before he was against it.)Jan. 21, 2017.“A reporter for Time magazine — and I have been on their cover 14 or 15 times. I think we have the all-time record in the history of Time magazine.” (Trump was on the cover 11 times and Nixon appeared 55 times.)
Jan. 23, 2017.“Between 3 million and 5 million illegal votes caused me to lose the popular vote.” (There's no evidence of illegal voting.)
Jan. 25, 2017.“Now, the audience was the biggest ever. But this crowd was massive. Look how far back it goes. This crowd was massive.” (Official aerial photos show Obama's 2009 inauguration was much more heavily attended.)
Jan. 25, 2017.“Take a look at the Pew reports (which show voter fraud.)” (The report never mentioned voter fraud.)
Jan. 25, 2017.“You had millions of people that now aren't insured anymore.” (The real number is less than 1 million, according to the Urban Institute.)
Jan. 25, 2017.“So, look, when President Obama was there two weeks ago making a speech, very nice speech. Two people were shot and killed during his speech. You can't have that.” (There were no gun homicide victims in Chicago that day.)
Jan. 26, 2017.“We've taken in tens of thousands of people. We know nothing about them. They can say they vet them. They didn't vet them. They have no papers. How can you vet somebody when you don't know anything about them and you have no papers? How do you vet them? You can't.” (Vetting lasts up to two years.)
Jan. 26, 2017.“I cut off hundreds of millions of dollars off one particular plane, hundreds of millions of dollars in a short period of time. It wasn't like I spent, like, weeks, hours, less than hours, and many, many hundreds of millions of dollars. And the plane's going to be better.” (Most of the cuts were already planned.)
Jan. 28, 2017.“The coverage about me in the @nytimes and the @washingtonpost has been so false and angry that the Times actually apologized to its dwindling subscribers and readers.” (It never apologized.)
Jan. 29, 2017.“The Cuban-Americans, I got 84 percent of that vote.” (There is no support for this.)
Jan. 30, 2017.“Only 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning. Big problems at airports were caused by Delta computer outage.” (At least 746 people were detained and processed, and the Delta outage happened two days later.)
Feb. 3, 2017.“Professional anarchists, thugs and paid protesters are proving the point of the millions of people who voted to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!” (There is no evidence of paid protesters.)
Feb. 6, 2017.“It's gotten to a point where it is not even being reported. And in many cases, the very, very dishonest press doesn't want to report it.” (Terrorism has been reported on, often in detail.)
Feb. 6, 2017.“And the previous administration allowed it to happen because we shouldn't have been in Iraq, but we shouldn't have gotten out the way we got out. It created a vacuum, ISIS was formed.” (The group’s origins date to 2004.)
Feb. 7, 2017.“And yet the murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years, right? Did you know that? Forty-seven years.” (It was higher in the 1980s and '90s.)
Feb. 9, 2017.“Chris Cuomo, in his interview with Sen. Blumenthal, never asked him about his long-term lie about his brave ‘service’ in Vietnam. FAKE NEWS!” (It was part of Cuomo's first question.)
Feb. 9, 2017.“Sen. Richard Blumenthal...now misrepresents what Judge Gorsuch told him?” (The Gorsuch comments were later corroborated.)
Feb. 10, 2017.“I don’t know about it. I haven’t seen it. What report is that?” (Trump knew about Flynn's actions for weeks.)
Feb. 12, 2017.“Just leaving Florida. Big crowds of enthusiastic supporters lining the road that the FAKE NEWS media refuses to mention. Very dishonest!” (The media did cover it.)
Feb. 16, 2017.“We got 306 because people came out and voted like they've never seen before so that's the way it goes. I guess it was the biggest Electoral College win since Ronald Reagan.” (George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama all won bigger margins in the Electoral College.)
Feb. 16, 2017.“Walmart announced it will create 10,000 jobs in the United States just this year because of our various plans and initiatives.” (The jobs are a result of its investment plans announced in October 2016.)
Feb. 16, 2017.“When WikiLeaks, which I had nothing to do with, comes out and happens to give, they’re not giving classified information.” (Not always. They have released classified information in the past.)
Feb. 16, 2017.“We had a very smooth rollout of the travel ban. But we had a bad court. Got a bad decision.” (The rollout was chaotic.)
Feb. 16, 2017.“They’re giving stuff — what was said at an office about Hillary cheating on the debates. Which, by the way, nobody mentions. Nobody mentions that Hillary received the questions to the debates.” (It was widely covered.)
Feb. 18, 2017.“You look at what's happening in Germany, you look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this?” (Trump implied there was a terror attack in Sweden, but there was no such attack.)
Feb. 24, 2017.“By the way, you folks are in here — this place is packed, there are lines that go back six blocks.” (There was no evidence of long lines.)
Feb. 24, 2017.“ICE came and endorsed me.” (Only its union did.)
Feb. 24, 2017.“Obamacare covers very few people — and remember, deduct from the number all of the people that had great health care that they loved that was taken away from them — it was taken away from them.” (Obamacare increased coverage by a net of about 20 million.)
Feb. 27, 2017.“Since Obamacare went into effect, nearly half of the insurers are stopped and have stopped from participating in the Obamacare exchanges.” (Many fewer pulled out.)
Feb. 28, 2017.“The E.P.A.’s regulators were putting people out of jobs by the hundreds of thousands.” (There's no evidence that the Waters of the United States rule caused severe job losses.)
Feb. 28, 2017.“We have begun to drain the swamp of government corruption by imposing a five-year ban on lobbying by executive branch officials.” (They can't lobby their former agency but can still become lobbyists.)
March 3, 2017.“It is so pathetic that the Dems have still not approved my full Cabinet.” (Paperwork for the last two candidates was still not submitted to the Senate.)
March 4, 2017.“Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my ‘wires tapped’ in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!” (There's no evidence of a wiretap.)
March 7, 2017.“122 vicious prisoners, released by the Obama Administration from Gitmo, have returned to the battlefield. Just another terrible decision!” (113 of them were released by President George W. Bush.)
March 17, 2017.“I was in Tennessee — I was just telling the folks — and half of the state has no insurance company, and the other half is going to lose the insurance company.” (There's at least one insurer in every Tennessee county.)
March 22, 2017.“I make the statement, everyone goes crazy. The next day they have a massive riot, and death, and problems.” (Riots in Sweden broke out two days later and there were no deaths.)
March 22, 2017.“NATO, obsolete, because it doesn’t cover terrorism. They fixed that.” (It has fought terrorism since the 1980s.)
March 31, 2017.“We have a lot of plants going up now in Michigan that were never going to be there if I — if I didn’t win this election, those plants would never even think about going back. They were gone.” (These investments were already planned.)
April 11, 2017.“I like Steve, but you have to remember he was not involved in my campaign until very late. I had already beaten all the senators and all the governors, and I didn’t know Steve.” (He knew Steve Bannon since 2011.)
April 12, 2017.“You can't do it faster, because they're obstructing. They're obstructionists. So I have people — hundreds of people that we're trying to get through. I mean you have — you see the backlog. We can't get them through.” (At this point, he had not nominated anyone for hundreds of positions.)
April 12, 2017.“The New York Times said the word wiretapped in the headline of the first edition. Then they took it out of there fast when they realized.” (There were separate headlines for print and web, but neither were altered.)
April 12, 2017.“Mosul was supposed to last for a week and now they’ve been fighting it for many months and so many more people died.” (The campaign was expected to take months.)
April 16, 2017.“Someone should look into who paid for the small organized rallies yesterday. The election is over!” (There's no evidence of paid protesters.)
April 18, 2017.“The fake media goes, ‘Donald Trump changed his stance on China.’ I haven’t changed my stance.” (He did.)
April 21, 2017.“When WikiLeaks came out ... never heard of WikiLeaks, never heard of it.” (He criticized it as early as 2010.)
April 27, 2017.“I want to help our miners while the Democrats are blocking their healthcare.” (The bill to extend health benefits for certain coal miners was introduced by a Democrat and was co-sponsored by mostly Democrats.)
April 28, 2017.“The trade deficit with Mexico is close to $70 billion, even with Canada it’s $17 billion trade deficit with Canada.” (The U.S. had an $8.1 billion trade surplus, not deficit, with Canada in 2016.)
April 28, 2017.“She's running against someone who's going to raise your taxes to the sky, destroy your health care, and he's for open borders — lots of crime.” (Those are not Jon Ossoff's positions.)
April 29, 2017.“As you know, I've been a big critic of China, and I've been talking about currency manipulation for a long time. But I have to tell you that during the election, number one, they stopped.” (China stopped years ago.)
April 29, 2017.“We're also getting NATO countries to finally step up and contribute their fair share. They've begun to increase their contributions by billions of dollars, but we are not going to be satisfied until everyone pays what they owe.” (The deal was struck in 2014.)
May 1, 2017.“Well, we are protecting pre-existing conditions. And it'll be every good — bit as good on pre-existing conditions as Obamacare.” (The bill weakens protections for people with pre-existing conditions.)
May 4, 2017.“Nobody cares about my tax return except for the reporters.” (Polls show most Americans do care.)
May 5, 2017.“We pay the highest taxes anywhere in the world.” (We're not.)
May 8, 2017.“But when I did his show, which by the way was very highly rated. It was high — highest rating. The highest rating he’s ever had.” (Colbert's Late Show debut had nearly two million more viewers.)
May 8, 2017.“Director Clapper reiterated what everybody, including the fake media already knows — there is ‘no evidence’ of collusion w/ Russia and Trump.” (Clapper only said he wasn't aware of an investigation.)
May 12, 2017.“Again, the story that there was collusion between the Russians & Trump campaign was fabricated by Dems as an excuse for losing the election.” (The F.B.I. was investigating before the election.)
May 26, 2017.“Just arrived in Italy for the G7. Trip has been very successful. We made and saved the USA many billions of dollars and millions of jobs.” (He's referencing an arms deal that's not enacted and other apparent deals that weren't announced on the trip.)
June 1, 2017.“China will be allowed to build hundreds of additional coal plants. So, we can’t build the plants, but they can, according to this agreement. India will be allowed to double its coal production by 2020.” (The agreement doesn’t allow or disallow building coal plants.)
June 4, 2017.“At least 7 dead and 48 wounded in terror attack and Mayor of London says there is ‘no reason to be alarmed!’” (The mayor was specifically talking about the enlarged police presence on the streets.)
June 5, 2017.“The Justice Dept. should have stayed with the original Travel Ban, not the watered down, politically correct version they submitted to S.C.” (Trump signed this version of the travel ban, not the Justice Department.)
June 21, 2017.“They all say it's 'nonbinding.' Like hell it's nonbinding.” (The Paris climate agreement is nonbinding — and Trump said so in his speech announcing the withdrawal.)
June 21, 2017.“You have a gang called MS-13. ... We are moving them out of the country by the thousands, by the thousands.” (The real number of gang members deported is smaller.)
June 21, 2017.“Your insurance companies have all fled the state of Iowa.” (They haven't)
June 21, 2017.“If [farmers] have a puddle in the middle of their field ... it's considered a lake and you can't touch it. ... We got rid of that one, too, O.K.?” (The Obama environmental rule to limit pollution in the country’s waters explicitly excludes puddles.)
June 21, 2017.“Gary Cohn just paid $200 million in tax in order to take this job, by the way.” Cohn sold Goldman Sachs stock worth $220 million.)
June 21, 2017.“We’re 5 and 0.” (Republicans have won four special elections this year, while a Democrat won one.)
June 21, 2017.“Last week a brand-new coal mine just opened in the state of Pennsylvania, first time in decades, decades.” (Another coal mine opened in 2014.)
June 22, 2017.“Former Homeland Security Advisor Jeh Johnson is latest top intelligence official to state there was no grand scheme between Trump & Russia” (Johnson, who had a different title, didn't say that.)
June 23, 2017.“Ratings way down!” (CNN's ratings were at a five-year high at the time.)
June 28, 2017.“Democrats purposely misstated Medicaid under new Senate bill — actually goes up.” (Senate bill would have cut the program deeply.)
July 17, 2017.“We’ve signed more bills — and I’m talking about through the legislature — than any president, ever.” (Clinton, Carter, Truman, and F.D.R. had signed more at the same point.)
July 19, 2017.“But the F.B.I. person really reports directly to the president of the United States, which is interesting.” (He reports directly to the attorney general.)
July 19, 2017.“She did the uranium deal, which is a horrible thing, while she was secretary of state, and got a lot of money.” (There's no evidence Hillary Clinton was actively involved or benefited from the deal.)
July 24, 2017.“It looks like about 45,000 people. You set a record today.” (Many fewer than 45,000 were there, and the attendance was not a record.)
July 25, 2017.“We have nearly doubled the number of veterans given approvals to see the doctor of their choice.” (The increase was 26 percent.)
July 25, 2017.“Since I took office we have cut illegal immigration on our southern border by record numbers. 78 percent.” (The decline began before Trump's inauguration.)
July 28, 2017.“The previous administration enacted an open-door policy to illegal migrants from Central America. 'Welcome in. Come in, please, please.'” (Obama deported millions.)
July 28, 2017.“We have trade deficits with almost every country because we had a lot of really bad negotiators making deals with other countries.” (The U.S. has a trade surplus with more than 100 countries.)
July 31, 2017.“2.6 is a number that nobody thought they’d see for a long period of time.” (Many experts predicted economic growth at least this high.)
July 31, 2017.“And even the President of Mexico called me – they said their southern border, very few people are coming because they know they’re not going to get through our border, which is the ultimate compliment.” (Mexico's president says he didn't call Trump.)
Aug. 3, 2017.“The Russia story is a total fabrication.” (It's not.)
Aug. 15, 2017.“We want products made in the country. Now, I have to tell you, some of the folks that will leave, they're leaving out of embarrassment because they make their products outside.” (People resigned from Trump's business councils over his Charlottesville comments.)
Aug. 22, 2017.“As everybody here remembers, this was the scene of my first rally speech, right?” (Trump's first rally was in New Hampshire.)
Aug. 22, 2017.“We have become an energy exporter for the first time ever just recently.” (The U.S. isn't projected to become a net energy exporter until 2026.)
Aug. 22, 2017.“Look back there, the live red lights. They're turning those suckers off fast out there. They're turning those lights off fast. Like CNN.” (CNN didn't turn off its cameras.)
Sept. 14, 2017.“Also with the fact that I know in the case of FEMA and the case of Coast Guard, the job you've done in saving people, saving lives. As an example, in Harvey in Texas, we talked – over 16,000 lives.” (The real number is smaller.)
Sept. 14, 2017.“And in Florida you got hit with the strongest winds ever recorded.” (They weren't the strongest ever recorded.)
Sept. 22, 2017.“So he started off here, he was in third or fourth, he went to third, second, and now it's like almost pretty even.” (Strange consistently polled first or second in the Alabama Republican primary.)
Sept. 27, 2017.“I’m doing the right thing, and it’s not good for me.” (All available evidence suggests he would benefit.)
Sept. 27, 2017.“To protect millions of small businesses and the American farmer, we are finally ending the crushing, the horrible, the unfair estate tax.” (The real number of small businesses and farmers is vastly smaller.)
Oct. 6, 2017.“They also just said that there has been absolutely no collusion. They just said that. Yesterday. Two days ago. Senate. There has been no collusion.” (The Senate didn't say that.)
Oct. 10, 2017.“The Failing @nytimes set Liddle' Bob Corker up by recording his conversation. Was made to sound a fool, and that's what I am dealing with!” (Corker asked the Times reporter to record the call; his aides recorded it too.)
Oct. 11, 2017.“We have missiles that can knock out a missile in the air. Ninety seven per cent of the time. If you send two of them, it's going to get knocked out.” (The effectiveness rate is about 60 percent.)
Oct. 16, 2017.“I hear that Ireland is going to be reducing their corporate rates down to 8 percent from 12.” (Ireland has no plans to cut its tax rate.)
Oct. 16, 2017.“If you look at President Obama and other presidents, most of them didn’t make calls.” (They did call families of soldiers killed in action.)
Oct. 16, 2017.“All I can say is it’s totally fake news. It’s just fake. It’s fake. It’s made-up stuff, and it’s disgraceful, what happens, but that happens in the world of politics.” (Trump himself has bragged about groping women.)
Oct. 18, 2017.“Democrat Congresswoman totally fabricated what I said to the wife of a soldier who died in action (and I have proof).” (The wife confirmed Representative Frederica Wilson's account.)
Oct. 18, 2017.“Nobody has ever heard of a five hitting land.” (Category 5 storms have hit land before.)
Oct. 24, 2017.“Under our plan, more than 30 million Americans who own small businesses will get a 40 per cent cut to their top marginal tax rate.” (The real number is estimated to be less than 1 million.)
Oct. 27, 2017.“Wacky & totally unhinged Tom Steyer, who has been fighting me and my Make America Great Again agenda from beginning, never wins elections!” (Steyer has financially supported many winning candidates.)
Nov. 7, 2017.“When you look at the city with the strongest gun laws in our nation, it's Chicago.” (Several other cities, including New York and Los Angeles, have stronger gun laws.)
Nov. 11, 2017.“I'd rather have him – you know, work with him on the Ukraine than standing and arguing about whether or not – because that whole thing was set up by the Democrats.” (There is no evidence that Democrats "set up" Russian interference in the election.)
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 604,570 times
Reputation: 2723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1921 View Post
That is not fully answering the question. What specifically is a “fair share”. Quantify it for us.
You want specific numbers in respect of general conditions and circumstances. The flaws here are in your questions, not in my answers.
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