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Old 12-24-2017, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 603,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
We need to cut spending. The tax burden is determined entirely by government spending.
At the federal level, tax burdens are entirely independent of decisions on spending.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 603,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
The private sector is all of those things. It's laughable that anyone would believe the government is different or more efficient.
There is nothing laughable about it. Except to those who may have done little to no investigation into the matter, being instead guided by the worthless reports of partisan charlatans and demagogues. The latter of course would include former US Senator Tom Coburn, as well as "The Pig Book," a screed published by the right-wing funded Citizens Against Government Waste. Ever heard of either of those?

Last edited by 17thAndK; 12-24-2017 at 09:30 AM..
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 603,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
That's laughable. Health care spending in America alone, whether private or public, is insanely inefficient. We spend over $1 Trillion a year treating diseases that are largely preventable.
The US has for years had the most expensive health care system in the world and one of the least effective. As many may not know, the US routinely ranks last or very close to it among developed countries in terms of amenable deaths. Those are deaths that could have been prevented simply through the timely intervention of standard medical care. This is one of many reasons why creation of a framework such as PPACA to work from was and still is so important.
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Old 12-24-2017, 10:16 AM
 
440 posts, read 199,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17thAndK View Post
The US has for years had the most expensive health care system in the world and one of the least effective. As many may not know, the US routinely ranks last or very close to it among developed countries in terms of amenable deaths. Those are deaths that could have been prevented simply through the timely intervention of standard medical care. This is one of many reasons why creation of a framework such as PPACA to work from was and still is so important.
Medical intervention can only do so much. Mysticalyger is correct in that much of it is largely preventable.

The American public bears much of the responsibility of increasing healthcare costs. If people would eat right, exercise and limit the use of tobacco and alcohol, we would see our healthcare costs plummet. There is only so much that modern medicine can do.

https://healthpayerintelligence.com/...lthcare-payers

Also, take a look at where we rank in obesity levels, the rate of increase and expected trends.

https://www.oecd.org/els/health-syst...pdate-2017.pdf
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:27 AM
 
8,301 posts, read 3,466,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
No. Tax cuts aren't subsidies. Subsidies are subsidies.
They are.

There will be some immediate and then later effects of any tax cut or subsidy.

But at the end of the day the key points are deficits, and where that new money goes.

If these tax cuts create a $2T deficit over ten years, or whatever, that is $2T of new money into the private sector.

If that money goes to the poor it gets spent right away. If it goes to the rich, it will mostly just sit.

If I were king the bulk of that money, whether tax cut, subsidy or benefit, would go to the middle class.
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:29 AM
 
8,301 posts, read 3,466,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1921 View Post
Medical intervention can only do so much. Mysticalyger is correct in that much of it is largely preventable.

The American public bears much of the responsibility of increasing healthcare costs. If people would eat right, exercise and limit the use of tobacco and alcohol, we would see our healthcare costs plummet. There is only so much that modern medicine can do.

https://healthpayerintelligence.com/...lthcare-payers

Also, take a look at where we rank in obesity levels, the rate of increase and expected trends.

https://www.oecd.org/els/health-syst...pdate-2017.pdf
Smoking is lower. Obesity not yet. I think murders are down. Another biggie is now narcotic deaths.
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:34 AM
 
8,301 posts, read 3,466,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17thAndK View Post
At the federal level, tax burdens are entirely independent of decisions on spending.
Out of 200,000,000 voters how many do you think have grasped this?
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:37 AM
 
6,308 posts, read 4,779,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17thAndK View Post
At the federal level, tax burdens are entirely independent of decisions on spending.
No, they're not. If the government spends money they have to get it from somewhere. There are only two possible places to get the money: current taxation and future taxation (borrowing). This is basic macroeconomics. Google "Ricardian equivalence."
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 603,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1921 View Post
The American public bears much of the responsibility of increasing healthcare costs. If people would eat right, exercise and limit the use of tobacco and alcohol, we would see our healthcare costs plummet. There is only so much that modern medicine can do.
Reality is that the charge to modern medicine is to care for the local population. It doesn't matter whether they smoke too much, eat too many Twinkies, or do absurd amounts of bungee-jumping. What you see is what you get. Provide the best possible care to those who present for whatever reason, and do outreach in an attempt to influence any who may be engaged in reckless behaviors. Anything less would be at least malfeasance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1921 View Post
Also, take a look at where we rank in obesity levels, the rate of increase and expected trends.
Obesity. Yet another push-button stereotype. To what extent are other nations chasing us out along the obesity curve? What sort of "got there first" gap exists between where we are now and where they will be more than soon enough?
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:13 PM
 
8,301 posts, read 3,466,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
No, they're not. If the government spends money they have to get it from somewhere. There are only two possible places to get the money: current taxation and future taxation (borrowing). This is basic macroeconomics. Google "Ricardian equivalence."
As 'borrowing' is never paid off, some is simply new/more money for the private sector.

Also coins as money can be created.

In extreme the Executive can stamp Trillion Dollar Platinum Proof coins of any denomination.
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