U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2018, 01:17 AM
 
6,308 posts, read 4,771,035 times
Reputation: 8437

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
CaptainNJ, most conservatives believe that government debt is another form of taxation, particularly if taxpayers are not obtaining their moneys' worth.
The preponderance of Germans with any regard for their history would believe debt certainly is effectively (at very least) a tax, and too often it's government robbing their population.

Respectfully, Supposn
Most people who have studied economics believe that government debt is another form of taxation, since there is nobody to pay back the debt other than taxpayers (including taxpayers not yet born). You don't have to be a conservative to believe what is so obviously true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-12-2018, 07:55 AM
 
8,293 posts, read 3,458,668 times
Reputation: 1586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
Most people who have studied economics believe that government debt is another form of taxation, since there is nobody to pay back the debt other than taxpayers (including taxpayers not yet born). You don't have to be a conservative to believe what is so obviously true.
National debt will never be paid off. National debt can and probably will continue to rise into perpetuity as long as our nation remains successful and grows. Most national debt is paid off by national debt. You and I don't have national debt as our burden. Our burden is federal taxes, which are based on income. Same with our kids, unless enough idiots get in there and change our laws.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...g-debt-fy-2013
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2018, 08:06 PM
 
6,308 posts, read 4,771,035 times
Reputation: 8437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
National debt will never be paid off. National debt can and probably will continue to rise into perpetuity as long as our nation remains successful and grows. Most national debt is paid off by national debt. You and I don't have national debt as our burden. Our burden is federal taxes, which are based on income. Same with our kids, unless enough idiots get in there and change our laws.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...g-debt-fy-2013
Whether you know it or not, you're paying the interest on the national debt. The principal doesn't matter as long as the government can issue new debt to pay off the old debt - in other words, it doesn't matter until it does.

Quote:
Our burden is federal taxes, which are based on income.
The tax *rate* depends on what the government needs, including interest on the national debt, and possibly retirement of principal. But you knew that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2018, 08:13 PM
 
8,293 posts, read 3,458,668 times
Reputation: 1586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
Whether you know it or not, you're paying the interest on the national debt. The principal doesn't matter as long as the government can issue new debt to pay off the old debt - in other words, it doesn't matter until it does.



The tax *rate* depends on what the government needs, including interest on the national debt, and possibly retirement of principal. But you knew that.
We do.

Little change in 30 years. $214B in 1988 = $448B today.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/...ir_expense.htm

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYOIGDA188S
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2018, 11:19 PM
 
5,121 posts, read 1,548,698 times
Reputation: 4952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Are the new Trump tax cuts really tax cuts, or are they tax subsidies?

The federal government is running a $700 billion deficit. The tax cut will result in an immediate loss of revenue on the order of $140 billion for 2018. That $140 billion must be financed by the selling of Treasury bonds. Interest on those bonds will be paid for by taxpayers for years to come.

In 2017 Bob paid $10,000 in federal taxes. In 2018, his taxes will fall to $8,000 due to the tax cut. Bob thinks, great, I get to keep more of my own money. But in reality he has received a $2,000 subsidy from the government in the form of publicly financed debt. This is exactly what the government is doing: they are using public debt financing to help subsidize people's tax bills.

The only time a tax cut allows you to "keep more of your own money" is when the government has a budget surplus. In that case the tax cut can be granted without the need for public debt financing and no subsidy is involved.
Not, of course a tax cut is not a subsidy. You need to remember that words have meanings, they have definitions. Subsidy is defined as money given BY the government to a business or industrial sector.

A tax cut is just letting people keep the money they already possess. The money does not belong to the government. It belongs to whoever earned it. You can not subsidize someone with their OWN money.

This should be obvious even to a grade schooler.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top