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Old 01-18-2018, 03:36 PM
 
10,608 posts, read 13,435,541 times
Reputation: 17163

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowonLuck View Post
I am not one to ask for help. I would much rather have people volunteer to help.

Our first stay was unexpected. It was the 3rd day in and I was desperate for clean clothes. A friend purchased some things and sent a bill. Don't get me wrong, I was grateful that she took the time to go grab me socks and underwear, but if the roles were reversed, I would never have expected her to pay me back. The hospital is in a really bad neighborhood, so going out is not really an option.

Lesson learned now is to take a packed suitcase to every doctors appointment, so we have clean clothes and items needed for hospital stays.
Why couldn't she bring you your own clothes? You needed NEW ones?

See, these choices I don't get.

And NO, even the most charitable person should not be buying you new stuff just because you're stuck somewhere. You have stuff.

OPM is always a fight.

 
Old 01-18-2018, 04:05 PM
 
3,538 posts, read 6,975,154 times
Reputation: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowonLuck View Post
Lots of people want to do away with all government run social /welfare programs and depend on churches and people to donate when situations arise. My point is this won't work for all the reasons I mentioned in my previous posts.
Have you applied for assistance with any agency whether it's a nonprofit or government agency? You're expecting people to ask you if they can help you and that is not the way that anyone is suggesting the system should work
 
Old 01-18-2018, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,783 posts, read 9,511,203 times
Reputation: 15114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowonLuck View Post
A welfare program of some type will always be necessary. We will never move towards a donation type system as a society.

I have a very ill teenager that has been in and out of the hospital for the last 6 months. She can't go to the local hospital for treatment for her condition. She has to go to a pediatric hospital in a big city, a good hour commute from our house. Parking, gas, food, and lost wages are all a significant cost factor. Her stays are usually a week at a time. That is a week of missing work so I can be with her for the treatments.

No one has offered financial help in any way. People do not give to everyone in need. They pick and choose who to give to and who not to. A welfare program gives to everyone that qualifies based on need. Not who has a better story, or news coverage.
I wish you & your daughter well.

Catholic Charities may be able to help. While not destitute, your family may be considered "at risk" and they may be able to help you.

Best of luck
 
Old 01-18-2018, 06:32 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,040,744 times
Reputation: 2071
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnojr View Post
Basically, you're saying you have a problem and that you want "someone else" to take that problem from you, and since nobody is doing that willingly, they should be forced to.

We have tons of welfare programs. And every single one is absolutely rife with people who have been determined to have a "need", and a huge number of those people are simply lazy, grifters, have some unidentifiable "syndrome" that leaves them unable to work or wait in lines but are otherwise healthy, etc. Those are the people you should be lashing out at, not working people who are already soaked in so many taxes and expenses to support them that they have nothing left to give you.

Agree 100%.. with some circumstances such as a child, but beyond that, if you aint working, you shouldn't get welfare. How it needs to be done. If you are working and getting welfare, then we have something to work on. But sitting at home popping kids out with out daddies and getting tax return checks that becomes a lazy epidemic culture.
 
Old 01-19-2018, 01:18 AM
 
1,745 posts, read 2,039,127 times
Reputation: 3678
First, let me say I am so sorry about your daughter. Even though I don't know you I'm going to add you to my morning prayers for healing. I am not saying that in a condescending manner, I truly mean it.

Second, the average person in this country pays $36 in taxes for food stamps and $870 in corporate subsidies every year. That's just a little spoon-feeding of it, I can give you a mouthful if you really want it. Most of your tax money is to offset big business, not funding roads or schools or whatever you think reality might be. Numbers don't lie. The real welfare rats are corporations. The political system is tilted towards pointing the blame at anyone but them, kicking the little guy who is just trying to survive instead of the true criminals. They have money to pay off the politicians, regular working people do not. The minimum wage in Australia is 2.5 times ours, yet you never hear of the same social problems. They never accept money into campaigns from anonymous sources like we do since Citizens United. Interesting, huh?

The problem in this country lies not with those who have too little, but rather, too much. And the ignorance of people who refuse to use rationale and facts, resorting to racism/classism/sexism and illogical childish emotion. Pay no attention to jnojr, he is just reading soundbites that were spoon-fed to him by places like Fox News most likely, without taking the time to do mature things like fact-check. Or having compassion for someone in a situation ANY of us could fall into. From an anonymous computer, yeah, real classy dude. Nobody brings their child into this world knowing what the cards hold. You just hope and work hard and do the best you can for you and your child, try your best to give them a better life than the one you had. And in spite of that, sometimes you get dealt a bad hand. The kind of hatred and cruelty stated started to really get to me until I realized it's simply a lack of proper education and awareness.

It is high time our citizens that know what is happening do their civic duty and vote. This includes the upcoming mid-term election. It is time we educate our populace and vote for not only our self-interests, but the greater good of this country. To be silent is to passively accept the current state of things, which is rigged towards corporate interests when it should be geared towards protecting innocent and decent people. We live in a democracy which means it is up to US to be informed and vote, otherwise we get the government we deserve. Remember that in November. Your vote is what matters. Until then, things will not improve but with God's grace and faith in the common sense of the common man, it absolutely will. I know it, I see it, I feel it. The victories in Alabama and Wisconsin tell me I'm not the only one fed up and pissed off.

Last edited by EastBoundandDownChick; 01-19-2018 at 02:00 AM..
 
Old 01-19-2018, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,808 posts, read 1,236,603 times
Reputation: 5159
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowonLuck View Post
I am not one to ask for help. I would much rather have people volunteer to help.

Our first stay was unexpected. It was the 3rd day in and I was desperate for clean clothes. A friend purchased some things and sent a bill. Don't get me wrong, I was grateful that she took the time to go grab me socks and underwear, but if the roles were reversed, I would never have expected her to pay me back. The hospital is in a really bad neighborhood, so going out is not really an option.

Lesson learned now is to take a packed suitcase to every doctors appointment, so we have clean clothes and items needed for hospital stays.
I'm sorry your daughter is sick. Truly. I took half a year off this year for my father's hospice. While most of the hospital staff was truly amazing, it seemed like Dr. Getabed would always sneak in when I was off getting lunch when Dad was napping, and one thing or another would be signed and he wouldn't remember what. I knew I needed help...I didn't know how to maneuver and negotiated in the hospital system, so I asked.

Nobody in their right mind was going to tell me what to do of their own accord. Nobody wants to be perceived as nosy or pushy. People did come up and say if there was anything I needed, to simply ask. I needed to be perceptive as to whether or not I thought that was a true offer or not.

When I realized this was not going to be a short stay, but wasn't going to be done, my sister came and took my place. I returned the borrowed car, packed up my Target wardrobe and went home, packed a car and drove out. My little one and I saw the country.

Here's what strikes me as odd here. When someone volunteered to help me, I took it. If I needed something, I asked.

I ended up staying longer then I expected. I asked someone to watch Dad while I raided Target for cheap clothes. I also asked people if I could do laundry at their place. Some were awesome and actually did it for me.

When I needed a car, I asked to borrow one. Another person actually offered, but I borrowed from a friend because I knew he had literally 15 cars. I didn't want him to give me one, but rather rent one to me. He declined rent. As the stay was going to be longer, i returned it, gassed/washed and gave a nice thank you gift. I flew home and drove my own car back.

We actually had neighbors competing to do the lawn and help with maintenance on the house outside. Most of the time I wouldn't even know who had done it, but could guess if one of the neighbors was cut the same day. A few came by with home cooked meals.

Dad wanted to pass at home...but we needed to get a new bed and redo parts of the house to accomodate this. I didn't ask for it to be free, but did ask for help in the bidding and understanding what needed to be done from construction people. I did ask for a pallative session with the doctors so I could plan to know what I would need to do.

It's a trick, but you need to know what people are able to help you with, and what they really can't.

It's hard. There are lots of programs out there, but you'll need to ask. And you'll need to ask the right people. If you asked me to buy you socks instead of washing your socks, I'd likely charge you as well. Ok, maybe not, but it would come across odd. Ask someone to help you plan through this so you know what you need to do. It's a bad situation that really you're going to have to be the leader on...and you'll end up in lots of situations you'd rather not be.

Focus on the health first. Get her healthy. You can't worry about the bills. The faster you can get the diagnosis and the health going the better and the fewer the bills. Find out what's the new norm. Figure out what you need to adopt to said norm. Make a plan, then ask people to help. People can save you a lot of money by keeping you in the right direction. Just keep the primary goal clear. Don't let the little stuff annoy you.
 
Old 01-19-2018, 06:40 AM
 
4,829 posts, read 2,300,111 times
Reputation: 8974
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
Agree 100%.. with some circumstances such as a child, but beyond that, if you aint working, you shouldn't get welfare. How it needs to be done.
Some people need assistance because they can't work, so saying they need to work to get it wouldn't make much sense.
 
Old 01-19-2018, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,757 posts, read 47,613,863 times
Reputation: 17641
Have you spoken with the Shriners?

https://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/shc

call: 800-237-5055

We have a network of 22 non-profit Children's Hospitals.
 
Old 01-19-2018, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,783 posts, read 9,511,203 times
Reputation: 15114
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastBoundandDownChick View Post
Second, the average person in this country pays $36 in taxes for food stamps and $870 in corporate subsidies every year. That's just a little spoon-feeding of it, I can give you a mouthful if you really want it. Most of your tax money is to offset big business, not funding roads or schools or whatever you think reality might be. Numbers don't lie. The real welfare rats are corporations.
One of the fundamental lessons of economics is that the tax burden (where it ultimately falls) really has nothing to do with the statutory burden (who has to file the tax paperwork & pay the various governmental entities and taxing authorities.)

When you place a tax on a business, the tax burden doesn't stay there. The real world is dynamic, not static. So, where does the tax burden go?

To the extent the business can successfully raise prices, some of that tax burden will fall on customers. Usually that is some of the tax burden, but not all of it.

What happens to the rest? Some of it falls on employees in the form of lower total compensation (and fewer employees) compared to what it would otherwise be. In the short run, this is probably very little, as we don't see companies just unilaterally cut compensation vary often. We do see hiring freezes.

So, customers eat some of the tax, and employees eat some of the tax. Where does the rest flow?

The rest flows to business owners in the form of lower profits. When the business is family owned, that means the family makes less money. When the business is a publicly traded corporation (with stock traded on stock exchanges), the owners are the shareholders.

That is -- the ultimate burden of the tax on a big business is described as follows:

X+Y+Z=100%, where
* X is the fraction that falls on customers in the form of higher prices,
* Y is the fraction that falls on employees in the form of lower total compensation, and
* Z is the fraction that falls on the business owners/shareholders in the form of lower profits.

That's it. There is nowhere else for the tax to go. It is incontrovertible. There is nowhere else for the tax to go: it flows to actual people.

Now let's focus on Big Business: the Fortune 500. You assert "Most of your tax money is to offset big business."

As shown above, some of the tax incidence (or tax cuts) on big business flows to customers in the form of increases (or decreases) in prices. Some flows to employees in the form of lower (or higher) total compensation. The rest flows to the shareholders in the form of lower (or higher) profits.

But who are these shareholders? The major shareholders are public sector pension funds (CalPERS, CalSTRS are the two largest in the nation), private sector pension funds, private sector 401K plans, IRAs (including Roth), and individual people investing for their own retirement. It also includes University Endowments and Charitable Trust Endowments.

Let's get specific. Let's take Apple. Here are the largest owners of Apple common stock (AAPL):

Vanguard
Blackrock
State Street
Fidelity
Berkshire Hathaway
T. Rowe Price
Northern Trust
Geode Captial
Bank Of New York Mellon
JP Morgan Chase

*******************
Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund
Vanguard S&P 500 Index Fund
SPDR S&P 500 ETF
Vanguard Institutional Index Fund
Powershares QQQ
iShares Core S&P 500 ETF
Fidelity 500 Index Fund
Vanguard Growth Index Fund
Fidelity Contrafund
T. Rowe Price Growth Stock Fund

So... of the portion of the tax that flows to shareholders, look at that list above: those are the investment vehicles for public sector pensions, private sector pensions, private sector 401Ks, private sector IRAs, private sector individual savings/investment accounts, and endowments.

So, when you say "The real welfare rats are corporations" notice who those rats are: they are us: public sector pension plans, private sector pension plans, 401Ks, IRAs, and regular investment accounts, and some non-profit endowments.

Last edited by SportyandMisty; 01-19-2018 at 10:02 AM..
 
Old 01-19-2018, 09:52 AM
 
3,780 posts, read 1,691,045 times
Reputation: 5190
We need welfare but we don't need welfare as a way of life. People who've been on welfare for 6 months or so should be required to report to make-work programs, 8AM - 5PM, Mon. - Fri., so they don't get too used to the leisure lifestyle.
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