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Old 01-19-2018, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,594 posts, read 9,427,321 times
Reputation: 9198

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
BEFORE SOCIALIST MEDICINE . . .
There was an ‘evil’ conspiracy to provide low cost / free medical care by renunciants of religious orders, who believed in serving mankind. These conspirators competed with well paid commercial private medical care givers and hospitals, often luring away patients by their egregious charitable works and genuine concern - caring for the sick - and not their wallet (or health insurance).

All that was ended, once the socialists gained power, and forced the religious orders to comply with socialist rules, regulations and taxes.

And we all can see how much better things are under glorious socialism.
[/sarcasm]
= = = = = = =
One day there may be a cure for AIDS, but no one is holding their breath. Maybe Cancer. Possibly Diabetes? It won't matter to anyone reading this because of this I am certain: none of us will be able to afford it! And that's with "Socialist Medicine". If Socialist Medicine goes away this country goes away even faster than its going now and it's going. America is officially losing more people every day than are born. Congratulations. We top the developed world in the rate of death from preventable causes and accidents. How fatalistic...

Every single antibiotic that treats everything from VD to Pneumonia is going to be useless in our lifetime. The next generation products are going to be affordable only by people with Socialist Medicine, so... scoff. There's no shame in my game. I didn't ask to be born, but since I'm here I don't see much point in going without medical treatment that I can only afford because of Socialist Medicine. I'm not the one who decided that a doctor should be compensated at $1000/hr. or that common analgesics should be priced like Cancer drugs.

 
Old 01-19-2018, 06:19 PM
 
Location: annandale, va & slidell, la
6,376 posts, read 2,584,120 times
Reputation: 5372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Why do you think so? Is it that preposterous that the 1% pay some money to provide basic subsistence for the millions they are going to put out of work forever by making every single endeavor that a human being can possibly perform in this life either an automated function, or else then performed by professionals toiling in a realm where the monetary units are only fractions of ours?
Wow, anyone else get this? Seems the 1% doesn't pay enough toward social services. Or something.
 
Old 01-19-2018, 06:23 PM
 
8,292 posts, read 3,456,454 times
Reputation: 1586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I'm not the one who decided that a doctor should be compensated at $1000/hr.
I guess not!

lol
 
Old 01-19-2018, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,205,456 times
Reputation: 8988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Really? I'd say you have that backwards. [Perhaps. But money madness is still madness.]

Yes! Faster! Faster! More! More! Growth-growth-growth, rah rah! [Prosperity is based on the production of surplus usable goods and services. Doing more with less so more can enjoy is superior to doing less with more so few can enjoy.]

Because, of course, we're all just sitting around expecting handouts from each other these days. And it's all the fault of "money." ["SOMEONE" is]

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm
Q: How much U.S. currency is in circulation?
A: There was approximately $1.58 trillion in circulation as of September 20, 2017, of which $1.53 trillion was in Federal Reserve notes.

U.S. Population (2017) : 326,474,013
>>> $4,686 per capita <<<

Federal Budget (2017): $3.65 Trillion
<<< $11,180 per capita >>>

"HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM..."
We owe over $20 trillion, and there’s only 1.53 trillion dollar bills circulating. The government spends $11,180 per capita, but there is only $4,686 per capita in circulation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financ..._United_States
The financial position of the United States includes assets of at least $269.6 trillion (1576% of GDP) and debts of $145.8 trillion (852% of GDP) to produce a net worth of at least $123.8 trillion (723% of GDP) as of Q1 2014.

!!! WUH WOH SCOOBY !!!

Not only can we never pay off the public debt, all those outstanding debts and accounts receivable and pension plans and retirement accounts can NEVER be “cashed out” - there’s not enough money nor legal tender.

Why can’t CONgress deal with this madness?
14th amendment, Section 4. THE VALIDITY OF THE PUBLIC DEBT of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, SHALL NOT BE QUESTIONED.
Now you know why they’re SILENT on Capitol Hill.
 
Old 01-19-2018, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,205,456 times
Reputation: 8988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Why do you think so? Is it that preposterous that the 1% pay some money to provide basic subsistence for the millions they are going to put out of work forever by making every single endeavor that a human being can possibly perform in this life either an automated function, or else then performed by professionals toiling in a realm where the monetary units are only fractions of ours?
That belief is tied to MONEY MADNESS.
In reality money is NOT prosperity. If there's nothing to buy with it, it's useless. (Gilligan's Island scenario)

Basic Income sounds great...
But who is going to guarantee the basic production output of goods and services?
WHO DECIDES WHAT IS MADE AND HOW MUCH OF IT?
. . .
Only the money mad think that money cures poverty.

Prosperity is dependent upon the production, equitable trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services. It has nothing to do with the sum and value of money tokens, or their distribution.
. . .
 
Old 01-19-2018, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,205,456 times
Reputation: 8988
[CLANDESTINE BROADCAST MODE ON]

Under money madness, there are only three ways to acquire money :
1) Trade (property or labor)
2) Charity (private or public)
3) Crime (predation, etc)

FOURTH WAY

If we add a fourth way to acquire money, we can void the necessity for public charity as well as the necessity for crime.
How do we do this?

4) Create the medium of exchange

Only productive people and enterprises have the intrinsic power to create the medium of exchange with which to trade for their goods and services. No parasite, consumer, nor predator should ever be allowed to exercise that power. No bank nor government should be trusted with the creation of money, lest they rob with impunity, taking without giving, without equitable trade.

Once people can engage in trade with promissory notes denominated in their own goods and / or services, they can bypass the bottleneck of scarcity that plagues money mad systems. “Cash poor” communities suddenly become prosperous as their productive people and enterprises create and trade surplus goods and services. And with the private promissory note system, comes the abolition of usury - charging a fee in money, for the use of money. (This also affects stock corporations - if they change to paying dividends in the form of coupons denominated in goods / services.)

You can’t charge interest on a coupon payable in hours of labor, nor particular items. A coupon denominated in “one Micky D burger” cannot be inflated, deflated, rehypothecated, or speculated into something of lesser or greater value. It is what it is - a means to “hold value” until discharged (at a future trade). And once discharged by the issuer, it ceases to exist. (Because it no longer “has value.” Which is one of the reasons to suspect “money” - it retains value AFTER all trades have ended.)

Basically, that is the function of any money token system - to pass value to a future trade when barter is insufficient. There is no need to “profit” or “win” at another’s expense. In bartering, both parties are satisfied. And in private money token system, trade should also be equitable so that all parties are satisfied, with no one made a loser.

You can’t ‘save’ abstract value indefinitely. There’s no benefit to hoarding Micky D burger coupons. Prosperity is based on production, equitable trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services - not the accumulation of money tokens. A business that pays for its raw materials and labor with its own notes, is in the “black” once it discharges all outstanding notes. Anything sold past that point is real profit, based on the added value intrinsic in any prosperous enterprise. Remember, the goal is to do more with less so more can enjoy - not do less with more so few can enjoy.

And since the creation of private promissory notes is an endowed right and power, it is not a government granted privilege subject to an excise tax. Remember, no government instituted to secure endowed (sacred) rights has a power to trespass, infringe nor tax those rights. . . unless you consent otherwise.

In a nutshell, to fundamentally change the nature of government and politics, requires withdrawal of consent from socialism and subjugation, and the institution of alternative mediums of exchange. Only then will prosperity be unleashed, and people enjoy their rightful fruits of their labor and property, free of parasites, plunderers and politicians.
= = = =
And since this remedy destroys the oligarchy, money powers, bankers, and collectivists, it can never, ever be spoken of by any minion of the propaganda ministry.
HUSH HUSH HUSH.

As long as people embrace the illusion that “making money” is better than building prosperity, no solution will be found. All that we have been indoctrinated to believe, is based on insanity. Investment at usury, law of supply and demand, and so forth, is so much nonsense that it takes a lifetime of repetition to kill off common sense.

Common Sense 101:
❏ Prosperity is the production, equitable trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services.
❏ Poverty is the inability to produce, trade nor enjoy surplus usable goods and services.
...
 
Old 01-19-2018, 07:23 PM
 
4,729 posts, read 2,259,491 times
Reputation: 8776
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
"HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM..."
We owe over $20 trillion, and there’s only 1.53 trillion dollar bills circulating. The government spends $11,180 per capita, but there is only $4,686 per capita in circulation.
This is so stupid it is physically painful to read, please stop.

Currency is not the same thing as capitalization.
 
Old 01-19-2018, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,723 posts, read 47,495,927 times
Reputation: 17577
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
BEFORE SOCIALIST MEDICINE . . .
There was an ‘evil’ conspiracy to provide low cost / free medical care by renunciants of religious orders, who believed in serving mankind. These conspirators competed with well paid commercial private medical care givers and hospitals, often luring away patients by their egregious charitable works and genuine concern - caring for the sick - and not their wallet (or health insurance).

All that was ended, once the socialists gained power, and forced the religious orders to comply with socialist rules, regulations and taxes.

And we all can see how much better things are under glorious socialism.
[/sarcasm]
= = = = = = =
It has not ended.

The Shriners are still here.
 
Old 01-19-2018, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,008 posts, read 1,023,325 times
Reputation: 3834
First of all, Jetgraphics, it's very poor form to embed your comment amid a quote box - it's very difficult to quote them down to a new message and respond coherently. (And, absolutely positively not to junior-mod here, it's bad form to edit quotes other than very careful trimming to the part you want to respond to, or judicious use of highlighting words and phrases. Some boards will ban you on a first offense of changing quoted text.)

But.

Quote:
[Prosperity is based on the production of surplus usable goods and services. Doing more with less so more can enjoy is superior to doing less with more so few can enjoy.]
(See? I didn't even change your unnecessary bolding and colorizing, or brackets.)

If you don't understand that economics is mostly theory based on assumptions, it won't make sense to you when I say you are absolutely right... as long as you are arguing from within conventional economic theory that says continued growth and continued wealth creation is the essential key. What proves that point? Why, all the corollary rules developed from it to support the tautology.

If you start from different assumptions, you can create perfectly working economic models on entirely different bases. Which, IMVHO, is our only way out of this mess. Endless growth, however "successful" in its own terms, is well on the way to destroying both our planet and the meaning of our lives as individuals.
 
Old 01-20-2018, 02:02 AM
 
24,726 posts, read 26,794,844 times
Reputation: 22718
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowonLuck View Post
Lots of people want to do away with all government run social /welfare programs and depend on churches and people to donate when situations arise.
It's not going to happen until / unless there's a collapse...which there will be eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowonLuck View Post
My point is this won't work for all the reasons I mentioned in my previous posts.
It doesn't work largely because family and community bonds have been weakened by the welfare state/popular culture, etc....which is exactly what the elites who rule over us want. The last thing they want is a self sufficient populace at the individual/family/local community level.

In places where there is no welfare state or a skimpier one than we have, people cooperate because they have to. When people don't have to cooperate, they don't. Human nature.
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