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Old 01-31-2018, 06:07 PM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Not for profit =/= minimum wage.

Not for profit == no stockholders and no decisions made for balance sheet considerations.
Non-profits make decisions with balance sheet considerations just like other business forms. “Non-profit” merely means that the surplus won’t be leaving to fund the owners boat purchase or kids college. They still need to grow their surplus, generate positive cash flow, and grow “revenue”. They are very much operating to create “profit”. Its just that it’s reinvested back into the business. Profit is value creation. If you’re consuming more resources than the value you’re producing, you deserve to go out of business and society would be better off to use those resources elsewhere. If you’re adding value to those resources to create profit, you thrive. Non-profits are subject to the same rules.

To say profit is bad and that healthcare needs to stay in the hands of “nonprofits” is absurd.

And I’ll take the ability of three of the most successful companies in the world to run healthcare better than the government, which does nothing but take from those who produce value. The government is usually the primary example of incompetence and an insular culture.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,980 posts, read 1,012,279 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1921 View Post
The best and brightest have the most options.
Right.

Quote:
They are like most people in that the larger percentage will seek out higher compensation.
Right.

Quote:
It is not a hard concept to understand.
No understanding problem... on this end, anyway.

Quote:
For profit enterprises will usually have better compensation programs, including LTI programs/equity.
Irrelevant. Make the field not-for-profit (and you might want to read up on that term, as your grasp of it seems shaky) and B&TB compensation will be what it has to be on a competitive basis... but not on a stock ownership/option/profit-sharing/dividend basis, which is the source of all problems with US healthcare.

Quote:
By the way, you still haven’t backed up this statement:
You're the only one here who thinks Pharma is an industry worth defending, instead of being one that's more morally bankrupt than investment banking. Go argue how terrible it is that drug patents run out with someone else.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,980 posts, read 1,012,279 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
To say profit is bad and that healthcare needs to stay in the hands of “nonprofits” is absurd.
Sure a good thing I didn't say that, then.

Not-for-Profit =/= Nonprofit. You could look it up.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:26 PM
 
437 posts, read 198,614 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
RFC, Jimbo. You missed "only," which completely transforms the statement.
If this wasn’t the motivation, they would just work for someone else.

Still waiting for you to back up this statement you made:

“In pharma alone, the single drive is increased profits through new, patentable drugs that are often no better than the generic standbys they replace - they just generate C-level and stockholder wealth, and vast piles of it.”
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:30 PM
 
437 posts, read 198,614 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post


You're the only one here who thinks Pharma is an industry worth defending, instead of being one that's more morally bankrupt than investment banking. Go argue how terrible it is that drug patents run out with someone else.
Here is what you said:

“In pharma alone, the single drive is increased profits through new, patentable drugs that are often no better than the generic standbys they replace - they just generate C-level and stockholder wealth, and vast piles of it.”

Stop trying to spin it. Back it up. The list shows the largest products. Show us which ones are no better than generics. Can you understand clinical data and outcomes to be able to support that statement?
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:33 PM
 
437 posts, read 198,614 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Sure a good thing I didn't say that, then.

Not-for-Profit =/= Nonprofit. You could look it up.
This is what you said “I'll put my cards on the table here: healthcare should be a strictly not-for-profit endeavor. Period”

And I agree with the comment that what you posted is absurd.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Ohio
17,998 posts, read 13,238,246 times
Reputation: 13776
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
The inherent flaw of the above argument is that a very high percentage of hospitals are indeed non-profit entities that have cutting edge technology, highly compensated staff, and financial reserves to expand programs as needed.
In a 2016 study published by Health Affairs (A More Detailed Understanding Of Factors Associated With Hospital Profitability), the majority of 3,000 health systems profiled lost money on patient services. 55% of hospitals are not profitable, and do not have the means to raise Capital for improvements.

New York, December 04, 2017 -- Moody's Investors Service has revised the US not-for-profit and public healthcare 2018 outlook to negative from stable based on the expectation that operating cash flow will contract by 2%-4% over the next 12-18 months.

https://www.moodys.com/research/Mood...ged--PR_376421
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
12,305 posts, read 10,048,458 times
Reputation: 20460
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
The inherent flaw of the above argument is that a very high percentage of hospitals are indeed non-profit entities that have cutting edge technology, highly compensated staff, and financial reserves to expand programs as needed.

Non-profit doesn't mean a collection of paupers or doing things lowest common denominator; it's structuring the organization so that budget surpluses are poured back into creating the highest possible quality of care system rather than siphoning that surplus into shareholder pockets.
Non-profit does NOT mean that the facility an't or isn't making a profit. Non-profit and no profit are 2 totally different things.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,980 posts, read 1,012,279 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Not-for-Profit =/= Nonprofit. You could look it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1921 View Post
This is what you said “I'll put my cards on the table here: healthcare should be a strictly not-for-profit endeavor. Period”
Nothing like someone who can vociferously argue that I said exactly what I said.

Since you can't distinguish between "nonprofit" and "not for profit" yet choose to continue arguing the (wrong) point... I'll just move on. It's been fun.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,980 posts, read 1,012,279 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
In a 2016 study published by Health Affairs (A More Detailed Understanding Of Factors Associated With Hospital Profitability), the majority of 3,000 health systems profiled lost money on patient services. 55% of hospitals are not profitable, and do not have the means to raise Capital for improvements.
Which has exactly nothing much at all to do with the discussion. But thanks anyway.
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