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Old 02-01-2018, 01:42 PM
 
8,279 posts, read 3,452,461 times
Reputation: 1584

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
This isn't entirely true.

The heavy subsidy comes from all the taxpayers regardless of whether they are an ACA enrollee, and depending on your circumstances (income relative to poverty level) can be affordable should you need to use it.
Part of any federal subsidy is funded by deficit spending. Either directly or indirectly.
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,980 posts, read 1,012,279 times
Reputation: 3798
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
It's not really news. Self-insurance has been around forever, but it's usually limited to one employer, a labor union, or a group of companies in an industry.
Nor is what's being proposed "self-insurance," although even the playas admit "details are TBD." Three megacorps self-insuring wouldn't even be news. Their implication is that they're going to invent/build their own healthcare system, despite a total lack of experience at any aspect of it other than managing healthcare stocks and selling 3-packs of Tylenol. But good ol' American business sense is all that's needed, right?
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:48 PM
 
8,279 posts, read 3,452,461 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So Amazon, a company with eight names and the largest investment banker in the world walk into a bar... if only it were a joke.

Can there be any question that this trio of titans sees "healthcare" as a product that needs only the most efficient and profitable packaging? Not a service. No connection to anything humanitarian. Just a business segment that can rearranged into corporate/production structure that delivers as little as it has to, to as many as possible, and with optimized profits at every turn?

I'll put my cards on the table here: healthcare should be a strictly not-for-profit endeavor. Period. Pay each participant and provider according to their contributions and value, but not one dime out the top or to stockholders. Double period.

The only thing Amazon, backed by investment titans, can do is package and sell healthcare as an array of products, using its massive and invasive marketing expertise and tools like big data to make sure every "customer" is sold the maximum they can be sold. It's the last turn of the screw US healthcare has been screwing us with, reducing us to no more than blank-faced consumers of what is not a consumer product.

We will never have the healthcare a wealthy, civilized country deserves until the last profiting entity is out the caregiving game, and costs for products are controlled by rational means.

Amazon and friends are the diametric opposite of that in every possible respect.
This will look like sound and smell like self-insurance and/or and HMO if distributed beyond their businesses.

There surely can be savings. But their initial enrollees, that is employees, are not the typical poor, senior or pre-existing patients that are our real HC dilemma.
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Old 02-01-2018, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,980 posts, read 1,012,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
This will look like sound and smell like self-insurance and/or and HMO if distributed beyond their businesses.
See: Kaiser Permanente, which did change the face of healthcare. For a while, anyway. But only through financial and administrative innovation, which changed zip about actual, you know, healthcare.

Quote:
There surely can be savings. But their initial enrollees, that is employees, are not the typical poor, senior or pre-existing patients that are our real HC dilemma.
Right. Anyone can fix a problem that's essentially self-solving because the elements are cherry-picked from the larger issue.
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Old 02-01-2018, 03:53 PM
 
437 posts, read 198,614 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Nor is what's being proposed "self-insurance," although even the playas admit "details are TBD." Three megacorps self-insuring wouldn't even be news. Their implication is that they're going to invent/build their own healthcare system, despite a total lack of experience at any aspect of it other than managing healthcare stocks and selling 3-packs of Tylenol. But good ol' American business sense is all that's needed, right?
Sorry, but you are off on this one.

With JP Morgan, they have strong ties to every sector of the healthcare business through their investment banking business. Probably better than any bank out there. This has given them unique insights is almost every public company in the business and know these sectors inside and out. This is what they do. By the way, take a look at which bank runs the largest healthcare conference every year and look at the attendee list. Every CEO, CFO, head of R&D, VC, PE firm, etc shows up. To me, it is somewhat surprising JPM jumped in. How will they now be viewed by clients? Will they be viewed as a potential competitor?

Amazon has been acquiring the experience and built a healthcare group in Seattle. Look it up. When they enter a segment, they bring in the best talent you can get. Look at the most recent hires in January. They throw massive resources at everything they do.

With Berkshire, will we have to see what they eventually bring to the party.
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Old 02-01-2018, 04:17 PM
 
10,608 posts, read 13,377,851 times
Reputation: 17153
Why the rant?

They're EXPERIMENTING with their own employees in a type of GROUP PLAN.

Thanks to the new legislation allowing it.

Sorry 'bout it!

There will be no government/nationalized "healthcare" for the near future.

And why is this in the Economics forum?
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Old 02-01-2018, 05:53 PM
 
437 posts, read 198,614 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
Why the rant?

They're EXPERIMENTING with their own employees in a type of GROUP PLAN.
That doesn’t seem to be the full plan based on those that have been hired so far.
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Old 02-01-2018, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Phoenix-Valley of the Sun
2,461 posts, read 1,200,617 times
Reputation: 3046
so will amazon make health care cheaper?
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Old 02-02-2018, 03:22 AM
 
437 posts, read 198,614 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49erfan916 View Post
so will amazon make health care cheaper?
Time will tell.
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:13 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
8,961 posts, read 3,118,603 times
Reputation: 7051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So Amazon, a company with eight names and the largest investment banker in the world walk into a bar... if only it were a joke.

Can there be any question that this trio of titans sees "healthcare" as a product that needs only the most efficient and profitable packaging? Not a service. No connection to anything humanitarian. Just a business segment that can rearranged into corporate/production structure that delivers as little as it has to, to as many as possible, and with optimized profits at every turn?

I'll put my cards on the table here: healthcare should be a strictly not-for-profit endeavor. Period. Pay each participant and provider according to their contributions and value, but not one dime out the top or to stockholders. Double period.

The only thing Amazon, backed by investment titans, can do is package and sell healthcare as an array of products, using its massive and invasive marketing expertise and tools like big data to make sure every "customer" is sold the maximum they can be sold. It's the last turn of the screw US healthcare has been screwing us with, reducing us to no more than blank-faced consumers of what is not a consumer product.

We will never have the healthcare a wealthy, civilized country deserves until the last profiting entity is out the caregiving game, and costs for products are controlled by rational means.

Amazon and friends are the diametric opposite of that in every possible respect.
OK - let's do some analysis on this.
First of all I do believe your motives are good.
However - 'strictly not for profit'....... if you're going to insist on this - then what are you going to do about the medical schools which force doctors & nurses to spend small fortunes and run up huge debts, in order to be able to enter the profession in the first place. This is where the problem all starts. Until you reign in education costs - you will never fix the problem - and I for one am interested to see what these 3 large companies can do. I mean, we've tried everything else short of nationalization of the industry.
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