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Old 01-31-2018, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,999 posts, read 1,017,500 times
Reputation: 3813

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So Amazon, a company with eight names and the largest investment banker in the world walk into a bar... if only it were a joke.

Can there be any question that this trio of titans sees "healthcare" as a product that needs only the most efficient and profitable packaging? Not a service. No connection to anything humanitarian. Just a business segment that can rearranged into corporate/production structure that delivers as little as it has to, to as many as possible, and with optimized profits at every turn?

I'll put my cards on the table here: healthcare should be a strictly not-for-profit endeavor. Period. Pay each participant and provider according to their contributions and value, but not one dime out the top or to stockholders. Double period.

The only thing Amazon, backed by investment titans, can do is package and sell healthcare as an array of products, using its massive and invasive marketing expertise and tools like big data to make sure every "customer" is sold the maximum they can be sold. It's the last turn of the screw US healthcare has been screwing us with, reducing us to no more than blank-faced consumers of what is not a consumer product.

We will never have the healthcare a wealthy, civilized country deserves until the last profiting entity is out the caregiving game, and costs for products are controlled by rational means.

Amazon and friends are the diametric opposite of that in every possible respect.
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,012 posts, read 13,238,246 times
Reputation: 13786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I'll put my cards on the table here: healthcare should be a strictly not-for-profit endeavor. Period.
Without profits, hospitals and doctors cannot upgrade their technology or obtain new technology.

Without profits, hospitals and doctors cannot increase their wages/salaries, or the wages/salaries of their employees.

Without profits, hospitals and doctors cannot expand to offer new services or augment existing services.

Without profits, there are no liquid cash reserves in the event of crisis or catastrophe.

Without profits, there's no support of the local community or local charities.
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
7,282 posts, read 15,283,732 times
Reputation: 7029
The inherent flaw of the above argument is that a very high percentage of hospitals are indeed non-profit entities that have cutting edge technology, highly compensated staff, and financial reserves to expand programs as needed.

Non-profit doesn't mean a collection of paupers or doing things lowest common denominator; it's structuring the organization so that budget surpluses are poured back into creating the highest possible quality of care system rather than siphoning that surplus into shareholder pockets.
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:39 PM
 
64,577 posts, read 66,100,109 times
Reputation: 43003
credit unions do just fine compared to banks and the credit unions are structured as non profit and pay no income taxes since in theory there are no profits
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,999 posts, read 1,017,500 times
Reputation: 3813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Without profits...
Reinvestment and development =/= profit.

In pharma alone, the single drive is increased profits through new, patentable drugs that are often no better than the generic standbys they replace - they just generate C-level and stockholder wealth, and vast piles of it. This - along with DTC drug advertising - is a microcosm of everything sick, sad, sour and wrong about US healthcare. And Cerberus there wants to mainstream the idea and make Alexa your GP.

If there are not institutions and companies content with making good money for salaries and infrastructure while developing new drugs and treatments, we'll just have to live without them. I'm betting there are.
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:56 PM
 
5,605 posts, read 4,159,335 times
Reputation: 12338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So Amazon, a company with eight names and the largest investment banker in the world walk into a bar... if only it were a joke.

Can there be any question that this trio of titans sees "healthcare" as a product that needs only the most efficient and profitable packaging? Not a service. No connection to anything humanitarian. Just a business segment that can rearranged into corporate/production structure that delivers as little as it has to, to as many as possible, and with optimized profits at every turn?

I'll put my cards on the table here: healthcare should be a strictly not-for-profit endeavor. Period. Pay each participant and provider according to their contributions and value, but not one dime out the top or to stockholders. Double period.

The only thing Amazon, backed by investment titans, can do is package and sell healthcare as an array of products, using its massive and invasive marketing expertise and tools like big data to make sure every "customer" is sold the maximum they can be sold. It's the last turn of the screw US healthcare has been screwing us with, reducing us to no more than blank-faced consumers of what is not a consumer product.

We will never have the healthcare a wealthy, civilized country deserves until the last profiting entity is out the caregiving game, and costs for products are controlled by rational means.

Amazon and friends are the diametric opposite of that in every possible respect.

Actually yes, there can be a question. They're forming a NON-PROFIT company to provide their combined 1 million US employees with high-quality, affordable healthcare. Not a lot of detail on how they plan to do this, but whatever they do it's clear they've given up on the traditional ways employers attempt to manage healthcare costs and are open to other solutions.


Disruptive innovation is typically a good thing, even when it comes from huge companies.
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:05 PM
 
1,538 posts, read 846,328 times
Reputation: 1168
If the ACA Marketplace had been put on Amazon to begin with, we would be billion and billions better off. McDonalds sells burgers for 1.50 and makes money. Amtrack charges 8.50 and loses 8. There needs to be competition at every level of healthcare. Pharma is the whipping boy, but is only about 10% of the pie. And how come the Lefties are so afraid to talk about tort reform? You know, the 700 pound woman whose estate got a few million, when she died after a colonoscopy?
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,999 posts, read 1,017,500 times
Reputation: 3813
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Actually yes, there can be a question. They're forming a NON-PROFIT company to provide their combined 1 million US employees with high-quality, affordable healthcare. Not a lot of detail on how they plan to do this, but whatever they do it's clear they've given up on the traditional ways employers attempt to manage healthcare costs and are open to other solutions.
Sure. Not a lick of self-interest there for themselves, their stockholders, their captive supply chain and every entity with a financial stake in any part of this. They're just going to throw half a trill at it out of goodness of their hearts, bless 'em.

Quote:
[requote] Not a lot of detail on how they plan to do this...
you don't say. Oh, wait... they didn't say. What's next, a fix for education that that fits on a matchbook cover and a plan for world peace that involves humming with your eyes closed? Hey, it's the trumpification of PR-driven self-aggrandizing philanthropy!

Quote:
Disruptive innovation is typically a good thing, even when it comes from huge companies.
It can be. But there is no reason to suspect anything good will come from this effort, unless you're an investor who has private health care lined up. Remember the supergenius from Apple who completely destroyed JC Penney? He didn't even understand a different branch of consumer retailing, much less the difference between selling junk and treating illness. So, same thing, x10^10th here.

Last edited by toosie; 01-31-2018 at 03:52 PM.. Reason: Deleted attempt at profanity
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:11 PM
 
437 posts, read 198,614 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So Amazon, a company with eight names and the largest investment banker in the world walk into a bar... if only it were a joke.

Can there be any question that this trio of titans sees "healthcare" as a product that needs only the most efficient and profitable packaging? Not a service. No connection to anything humanitarian. Just a business segment that can rearranged into corporate/production structure that delivers as little as it has to, to as many as possible, and with optimized profits at every turn?

I'll put my cards on the table here: healthcare should be a strictly not-for-profit endeavor. Period. Pay each participant and provider according to their contributions and value, but not one dime out the top or to stockholders. Double period.

The only thing Amazon, backed by investment titans, can do is package and sell healthcare as an array of products, using its massive and invasive marketing expertise and tools like big data to make sure every "customer" is sold the maximum they can be sold. It's the last turn of the screw US healthcare has been screwing us with, reducing us to no more than blank-faced consumers of what is not a consumer product.

We will never have the healthcare a wealthy, civilized country deserves until the last profiting entity is out the caregiving game, and costs for products are controlled by rational means.

Amazon and friends are the diametric opposite of that in every possible respect.
Not for profit? Some of the best and brightest in the field will leave and most of what is left are those that don’t have much of a choice.

Secondly, most innovation will stop. There would be no incentive for anyone to invest. Say goodbye to next generation advances like CAR-T, Gene therapy, gene editing, etc.

Want an example of what goes in the trash can? Here is a little sample. Try Googling the top healthcare VC firms. Take a look at their portfolios. That shows you the future. Check out the Biotech firms. Look at the pipelines. Say goodbye.
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,999 posts, read 1,017,500 times
Reputation: 3813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Roach View Post
If the ACA Marketplace had been put on Amazon to begin with, we would be billion and billions better off.
Right, because everything including national government is best "run like a business!" (Too bad about those people things, you know.)

Quote:
McDonalds sells buyers for 1.50 and makes money.
McDonalds is the cause of most necessary health care, and sells a cheap product, not a service.

Quote:
Amtrack charges 8.50 and loses 8.
Amtrak can spell better and is massively subsidized.

Healthcare is no more "best run as a business" than religion or government. And that's all this trio has to bring. None of them know sh*t about healthcare except dividends and bulk packs of band-aids.
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