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Old 02-06-2018, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,992 posts, read 1,017,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
So this gives them the excuse to pay people less then $13 a hour now? but screws the employee in the process
I'd guess there's not much effect that way. Sticking commodity workers with an NC clause is just plain screwage to no useful end, except to bind the employee a little tighter to the job. Ban the clause, it's not like they're going to pay below going wages to compensate. It just takes away one white chip from their pile.
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:43 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,027,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post

From your statement above, you think you should be able to go to work for your present employer just long enough to learn a skill, you can take to the new employer to earn more money.

.
That is what a employee does, gain the knowledge and demand more for that knowledge. If we didnt learn anything, then you will ( company) will pay the cheapest rate allow because they hire a idiot. Knowledge is power that gets you money, vs a company being cheapskates.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,992 posts, read 1,017,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
That is what a employee does, gain the knowledge and demand more for that knowledge. If we didnt learn anything, then you will ( company) will pay the cheapest rate allow because they hire a idiot. Knowledge is power that gets you money, vs a company being cheapskates.
In all sincerity, I am surprised you are able to remain employed. You have some truly odd notions about how the relationship works, even in this rather oppressive time for workers.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:13 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,027,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
In all sincerity, I am surprised you are able to remain employed. You have some truly odd notions about how the relationship works, even in this rather oppressive time for workers.
I surprise my self at times. hahaa.. I am known to not "beat around the bush" person. Just tell you what you need hear, not what you want to hear. Boss likes that about me, honest and straight forward. I dont care how a relationship works, just as long as it works in my advantage that pays the bills. But holding me back and use and abuse my skill set is what I dont like, and i have been known to "play stupid" when its needed. If you dont learn anything at your job, then what have you been doing all these years? I go to work to learn something to increase my paycheck, not you ( company) to buy a summer house off my back.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:22 PM
 
29,805 posts, read 15,208,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
From your statement above, you think you should be able to go to work for your present employer just long enough to learn a skill, you can take to the new employer to earn more money.
It's almost as if it's a market.

Quote:
And that is the attitude of the young work force today, which is get a job and learn a skill they can sell for a higher income at another job. You see them advocating this on these threads.
It is pretty much the only way to advance in pay rate in the 21st century. Sorry, it's a fact.

Quote:
Then they complain, that companies no longer want to train people just starting out, and only want to hire people with 5 or more years experience.

It is because they are tired of spending time and money training new workers who will leave as soon as they learn the skill, and sell that knowledge to another employer for more money.
Loyalty is a two-way street. If an employee can sell his/her skill at a higher price, then the old employer is de facto not paying market rate. Employers certainly do not hold on to employees if they can purchase a comparable skillset at a lower price - just look at off-shoring.

So the employer can do three things:

Realize that through experience, their employee is now a more valuable asset and increase compensation accordingly. Yeah, right.

Motivate their best assets to stay with delayed compensation schemes - 401(k)s that vest after a given time, RSUs, that sort of thing.

Or just hobble the employee with a non-compete clause.

In the 21st century, people have completely given up on counting on employers for loyalty. And with good reason.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:24 PM
 
29,805 posts, read 15,208,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
In all sincerity, I am surprised you are able to remain employed. You have some truly odd notions about how the relationship works, even in this rather oppressive time for workers.
Seems pretty realistic to me. My employer is not my friend, it's a business relationship and it's adversarial in nature.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,992 posts, read 1,017,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Seems pretty realistic to me. My employer is not my friend, it's a business relationship and it's adversarial in nature.
I don't see it any other way. But if you take a job that involves significant employer-paid training, it's not unreasonable to extract an agreement that keeps you from running right out the door to another position using that training.

It's complete BS for commodity jobs, no matter how "special" a restaurant's menu might be.
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:24 PM
 
29,805 posts, read 15,208,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I don't see it any other way. But if you take a job that involves significant employer-paid training, it's not unreasonable to extract an agreement that keeps you from running right out the door to another position using that training.
Formal training that shows up as an actual expense on the books, sure. But if someone tries to argue that on-the-job training or, worse, experience should somehow make you beholden to the company? - Nope.

Quote:
It's complete BS for commodity jobs, no matter how "special" a restaurant's menu might be.
Emphatically agreed.
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:28 PM
 
3,963 posts, read 1,593,575 times
Reputation: 12385
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
So we just been handed some forms about were we can advertise and not advertise as our company was issue a non-compete clause. In some states we cant advertise on media including tv and social media outlets. I guess competition is ruff and we cant advertise were we want too?
Hey, you didn't have to sign it.

Here's the thing. If you leave a company or your partnership comes to an end, you often take their trade secrets, their pricing formulae, their client lists, and a lot of other intellectual property. They are well within their rights to say you can't take that information to poach those clients, at least for a certain interval of time.

Obviously, if you're flipping burgers, who cares? There's nothing proprietary about that. But if you're an engineer with information about product specs rattling around in your head? Absolutely. If you're an account person who knows detailed information about clients? Absolutely.

When I left my employer to start my own firm, I wasn't under an NDA or non-circumvention agreement. And I was the account lead on a couple of plum pieces of biz. But I chose not to pursue them because I didn't think it would be ethical. Some people wouldn't think that way.

I always use an NDA and a non-circumvention agreement as a condition of hiring, both as an employee and as a vendor. Unfortunately, there have been a couple of cases where a vendor tried to snake my biz. Funny how a copy of the signed NDA attached to a note from my attorney will stop that unethical BS in its tracks.
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,992 posts, read 1,017,500 times
Reputation: 3808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Formal training that shows up as an actual expense on the books, sure. But if someone tries to argue that on-the-job training or, worse, experience should somehow make you beholden to the company? - Nope.
No, I mean specific training, either paid for to outside resources or involving considerable time while the employee is not a profitable asset - learning tools, techniques, information, processes specific to the employer or field. Not just "on the job experience acquisition," which is an unbudgeted cost of having any worthwhile employee.

It's quite reasonable to bind the employee in some way to make sure the company gets its ROI on their training, or at least does not lose money when that training hops over to a competitor.

But we're in agreement that binding employees doing commodity jobs is just twisting the knife.
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