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Old 02-11-2018, 03:38 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,994,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Bada Bing! Knowing and understanding a particular ideology doesn't mean that you need to embrace it.

|I wonder if a certain poster will disagree with my next Rand quote or if they will embrace it?
One needs to evaluate an ideology and its parent philosophy, and then embrace if they find it rational, correct, and supportive of human life, and their own life.


So if a particular ideology advocated for individual rights as the prime building block of civilization, and freedom as the cardinal virtue of society, I would rationally embrace that ideology and advocate for its wider acceptance. That's what Objectivism advocates.


You are falling into the trap of worrying about personalities. Worry about the philosophy, not the philosopher. Ayn Rand is a continuation and refinement of the philosophy of Aristotle.


Study up and learn something. Don't re-tweet movie reviews. Go watch the movie yourself. It's a damned good picture.
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:40 PM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,942,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Ayn Rand would be against the estate tax. A person's wealth is private property. The right to private property means the right to use and dispose of said property. Upon death, a person's property should be disposed of according to his wishes. If no wished are expressed, there is established law to deal with disposition.
Would she really? Much of her ideology is tied to the individual and his/her self determination in seeking and realizing self driven success. The estate tax is in some cases going to those not worthy of wealth as they have achieved it by birth not by self driven initiative. |It is the free will of the individual independent of government standing in their way to be successfully self driven.
The question becomes in Objectivism is that person who inherits without the behavior to be successful and wealthy independent of that wealth worthy of that wealth?
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:43 PM
 
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https://atlassociety.org/objectivism...is-objectivism

Quote:
Question: What is Objectivism ?
Answer: "My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
— Ayn Rand , Appendix to Atlas Shrugged
Objectivism is the philosophy of rational individualism founded by Ayn Rand (1905-1982). In novels such as The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged , Rand dramatized her ideal man, the producer who lives by his own effort and does not give or receive the undeserved, who honors achievement and rejects envy. Rand laid out the details of her world-view in nonfiction books such as The Virtue of Selfishness and Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.
Quote:
Objectivism holds that there is no greater moral goal than achieving happiness. But one cannot achieve happiness by wish or whim. Fundamentally, it requires rational respect for the facts of reality, including the facts about our human nature and needs. Happiness requires that one live by objective principles, including moral integrity and respect for the rights of others. Politically, Objectivists advocate laissez-faire capitalism. Under capitalism, a strictly limited government protects each person's rights to life, liberty, and property and forbids that anyone initiate force against anyone else. The heroes of Objectivism are achievers who build businesses, invent technologies, and create art and ideas, depending on their own talents and on trade with other independent people to reach their goals.
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,884 posts, read 14,075,637 times
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FEDERAL RESERVE & MONEY MADNESS
https://www.federalreserve.gov/relea...nt/default.htm

Dec. 2017 . . . M1: 3,614.3 . . . M2:13,845.0 (in billions)


https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm
Q: How much U.S. currency is in circulation?
A: There was approximately $1.59 trillion in circulation as of November 15, 2017, of which $1.55 trillion was in Federal Reserve notes.
Federal Budget (2017): $3.65 Trillion


NATIONAL DEBT
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
As of Jan.23, 2018, the debt is in excess of $20.61 trillion dollars (not dollar bills)
(Dollar bills are debt / IOUs, denominated in dollars, and are part of the national debt)

Recapping: The national debt, in dollars, is 169 times greater than all the world’s gold bullion, stamped into coin.
The federal budget, in dollar bills, is 2.3 times greater than all the circulating dollar bills.

And though insane, we cannot challenge the validity of the public debt, pursuant to the 14th amendment, clause 4.
14th amendment, Section 4. THE VALIDITY OF THE PUBLIC DEBT of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, SHALL NOT BE QUESTIONED.
Are you still sure there is anything that anyone can truly own, denominated in dollar bills (worthless IOUs)?
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:44 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,994,461 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Would she really? Much of her ideology is tied to the individual and his/her self determination in seeking and realizing self driven success. The estate tax is in some cases going to those not worthy of wealth as they have achieved it by birth not by self driven initiative. |It is the free will of the individual independent of government standing in their way to be successfully self driven.
The question becomes in Objectivism is that person who inherits without the behavior to be successful and wealthy independent of that wealth worthy of that wealth?
I could explain this in detail, however, we are getting into a deeper discussion of philosophy, which comes before economics or tax policy. The Objectivist position on the estate tax, along with the philosophy behind it can be learned about here:

https://youtu.be/3aEmW76AP8U
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Old 02-11-2018, 06:16 PM
 
10,226 posts, read 7,523,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/08/b...s-economy.html

is this stat even valid? This seems ridiculously skewed to me. I thought 50% of Americans owned some stocks and the average balance was about $100k
Probably because the top 5% own SO MUCH of the stocks they own. A middle or upper class person who owns stocks doesn't usually own the thousands of shares in a stock, like a multi-millionaire would own.

Institutions and funds probably own the lion's share of stocks.
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Old 02-11-2018, 06:56 PM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,942,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
One needs to evaluate an ideology and its parent philosophy, and then embrace if they find it rational, correct, and supportive of human life, and their own life.


So if a particular ideology advocated for individual rights as the prime building block of civilization, and freedom as the cardinal virtue of society, I would rationally embrace that ideology and advocate for its wider acceptance. That's what Objectivism advocates.


You are falling into the trap of worrying about personalities. Worry about the philosophy, not the philosopher. Ayn Rand is a continuation and refinement of the philosophy of Aristotle.


Study up and learn something. Don't re-tweet movie reviews. Go watch the movie yourself. It's a damned good picture.
Really laughable since you know nothing about me. A clue in the 60's as a undergrad as was charged with doing a comparative study between Rand based on Atlas Shrugged and other works and late 19th century European Socialism as articulated in a Traveler from Altruria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Traveler_from_Altruria a conceptual fiction piece framed around Utopian Socialism.

As you know Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead deal with the role and development of man within the context of society. She began to develop her philosophy of Objectivism after she wrote Atlas Shrugged. It was in the sixties that the thinking of laisez Faire Capitalism and Government Largeness and role playing in the economic life of the individual and America began to become a hot topic in college circles and discussions. Thus my fortunate assignment by a professor to research and present. The impact on and of has stayed with me all of my life as I have watched almost fifty years of history play out before me including the roll out of the Great Society etc etc etc. My thinking and observations have often been focused on this assignment and over the years I have mentioned it in several CD forums and elsewhere. My beliefs have evolved and I have found it interesting where Libertarians like the Koch Brothers who are of my age range have found overlap with groups and ideas on the left much to the surprise of those groups. So Objectivism and the Atlas Society got it. I also realize that like many thinkers as time passes their thinking become mutated by events and happenings beyond the scope of their writing at the time. It is the essence of the individuals in both a Socialized and truly free laisez Faire society that I reflect my observations in the context of.

The irony of the assignment was that the length of the Ayn Rand readings dwarfed A Traveler from Altruria in words but not in the back and forth over the years.

I only started quoting her in response to one posters comments about.

Watch the move? Read the books and debated and was challenged on.

I have also had a fascination with Meta Physics over the decades along with Free Will/Determinism

Last edited by TuborgP; 02-11-2018 at 07:09 PM..
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Old 02-11-2018, 07:02 PM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,942,564 times
Reputation: 14419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
I could explain this in detail, however, we are getting into a deeper discussion of philosophy, which comes before economics or tax policy. The Objectivist position on the estate tax, along with the philosophy behind it can be learned about here:

https://youtu.be/3aEmW76AP8U
Trust fund babies who are rich without the merit of having the ability to have earned that wealth are the undeserving she mentions and a corruption of the value Free Markets have on human achievement and self driven initiative.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:17 PM
 
30,873 posts, read 36,818,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
You forgot chapter and verse!

I always wonder, just a little, how many RLTs know their hero was a Russian-educated Jewish immigrant to the US?
What's an RLT?

In any event, I knew the above about Rand.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:21 PM
 
30,873 posts, read 36,818,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
When I finished my education back in the early Seventies, fractional-share dividend-reinvestment plans were just starting out, but I picked a couple of good ones, and kicked in a few bucks when I got the chance; some years later, I liquidated, and paid something on the order of 50% down on my house with the proceeds; it puzzles me that more young working adults aren't made aware of this option.
In my experience, I've told people, especially young people, about savings and investment options until I'm blue in the face. People get p*ssed off at you for it. And they get p*ssed off at other people when they're old, can't work, and are broke, too.
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