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Old 04-13-2018, 03:08 AM
 
64,532 posts, read 66,075,955 times
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i am in favor of everyone paying something but we will have to disagree on 10% . in fact many don't pay that now just using the standard deductions and exemptions because our tax system is a marginal rate system .10% starting at dollar 1 can be a very high tax rate compared to the current system which is marginal .

we had a very large long term capital gain which was taxed at 23.80% when we sold an asset , and on a 460k income from dollar 1 we paid a total of 19% federal tax on both the gain and earned income and another 10% from dollar 1 on state and local taxes . so 10% is a lot from dollar 1 for someone earning 20k a year and trying to live on it , especially if state and local taxes are involved too . .. .

a flat tax from dollar one is no where near a marginal tax rate system .

we already have a flat rate tax in place when you move on to the amt tax system and because it would hit lower incomes way to hard it kicks in at higher incomes for a reason .

Last edited by mathjak107; 04-13-2018 at 03:22 AM..
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Old 04-15-2018, 05:23 PM
 
16,484 posts, read 17,501,756 times
Reputation: 23531
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Has nothing to do with stupid. A fully informed individual without discretionary income is unable to obtain the benefits of the tax code available to the informed person with discretionary income.

e.g. you can't enjoy tax benefits available to homeowners if you can't own a home.
What’s your yearly income? I guarantee you that you qualify for more government programs, pay thecleast amount of taxes than someone making 60k a year.

You think those homeowners dont deserve some sort of relief. There are plenty of people paying tens of thousands of dollars in taxes yearly to make sure the poor have the programs needed to support their asses.

I’ll gladly pay 10% income tax. I would have no problem writing that check.

Last edited by Electrician4you; 04-15-2018 at 05:50 PM..
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,722 posts, read 47,472,880 times
Reputation: 17565
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Just too much gaming the system, special interest deductions here, there and everywhere.

Just have 10%, upfront, withheld from ALL wages, everyone pays, no writoffs. You make 300K a year, you pay 30K in income-tax, you make 20K a year in wages, you pay 2K in income-tax.
That makes sense for the 'wage-slaves'. But what about everyone else?

I am a service member, I get a paycheck just like every other service member. But I also have owned apartment buildings, and have had rental income. I have also owned an assortment of businesses, with schedule C income and losses. I have also produced farm crops and filed schedule Fs, with those profits and losses.

A 'flat tax' makes sense among wage-slaves, I agree.

But for business operators it makes no sense at all.
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:39 AM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,978,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Two Americas?
Our taxes are simple.

We earn money, we owe taxes.

We don't make enough to make any deductions that would matter over the standard deduction to reduce or eliminate our tax liability.

We earn enough to pay, but not enough to have enormous deductions over the allowable.

I always joke we are UPC. (Upper Poor Class).

Even though we are squarely lower middle income class according to the national definition of middle income, whether low or middle or upper middle class.

I am firmly informed that we owe taxes.
I am informed we could do this that and the other thing to try to reduce our taxes. But then, what would we live on?

I agree the tax should be standard, no deductions, on AGI, regardless of source. That would be the "fairest" for all. It would simplify the tax codes. It would prevent some of the more wealthier from totally eliminating their tax burdon, and eliminate those lower income people from getting back something they never paid.

"ONE NATION.....AND TAXES (JUSTICE) FOR ALL..."

There was a new simple tax form suggestion that was fair to all:

Line 1: what was your income for last year?
Line 2: Send it in.




Last edited by galaxyhi; 04-18-2018 at 05:51 AM..
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Old 04-18-2018, 12:05 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 1,985,593 times
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Simplification of the US tax code has been needed for some time. Typically throughout our history every 25-30 years we have a national "reset" and simplification of federal tax code. Over the years lobbying tends to add special interest exemptions and deductions to support (in theory) productive changes to code.

In this last go round not only did they not simplify and standardize tax code they made it more complicated and volatile.

This tends give advantage to the educated/informed, the wealthy, and corporations to maximize tax strategy benefits.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:33 PM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
Simplification of the US tax code has been needed for some time. Typically throughout our history every 25-30 years we have a national "reset" and simplification of federal tax code. Over the years lobbying tends to add special interest exemptions and deductions to support (in theory) productive changes to code.

In this last go round not only did they not simplify and standardize tax code they made it more complicated and volatile.

This tends give advantage to the educated/informed, the wealthy, and corporations to maximize tax strategy benefits.
While it’s no question this tax reform complicated the code significantly, I’m not sure when this great reset in complication was. It’s a long running joke in the profession about the hilarious name “tax simplification” act of 86’. Also referred to in jest as the “lifetime employment act”.

And I do not understand why people think the complication is there to allow abuse. The complication is there to prevent abuse in a MINDBLOWINGLY complex business environment. It’s basically a never ending arms race. People crack the code, and the code and case law morphs to keep up.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 04-26-2018 at 07:56 PM..
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:54 PM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Our taxes are simple.

We earn money, we owe taxes.

We don't make enough to make any deductions that would matter over the standard deduction to reduce or eliminate our tax liability.

We earn enough to pay, but not enough to have enormous deductions over the allowable.

I always joke we are UPC. (Upper Poor Class).

Even though we are squarely lower middle income class according to the national definition of middle income, whether low or middle or upper middle class.

I am firmly informed that we owe taxes.
I am informed we could do this that and the other thing to try to reduce our taxes. But then, what would we live on?

I agree the tax should be standard, no deductions, on AGI, regardless of source. That would be the "fairest" for all. It would simplify the tax codes. It would prevent some of the more wealthier from totally eliminating their tax burdon, and eliminate those lower income people from getting back something they never paid.

"ONE NATION.....AND TAXES (JUSTICE) FOR ALL..."

There was a new simple tax form suggestion that was fair to all:

Line 1: what was your income for last year?
Line 2: Send it in.



That would result in massive tax cuts on well off citizens and a massive tax increase for those less well off.

I’m not sure why this is so hard to understand for the”fair” tax crowd.

That type of plan is a nonstarter. A flat tax is just about as sad as trying to say all income sources should be taxed the same. Someone who suggests either deserves to be laughed out of the room and treated like an innocent child who thinks the tooth fairy is real.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 04-26-2018 at 08:05 PM..
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