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Old 03-02-2018, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Boydton, VA
2,093 posts, read 2,697,510 times
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"Saying a cable tv installer is similar to a electrical lineman is laughable" here here. I was a Telco Lineman, no way I would have been a power lineman....they deserve every penny they get.....and a CATV person is even further down the pole....so to speak.

Regards
Gemstone1
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:49 PM
 
11,896 posts, read 14,368,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemstone1 View Post
"Saying a cable tv installer is similar to a electrical lineman is laughable" here here. I was a Telco Lineman, no way I would have been a power lineman....they deserve every penny they get.....and a CATV person is even further down the pole....so to speak.

Regards
Gemstone1
Considering the voltages they work with, power linemen are in much greater danger. You touch a cable TV line, so what? Touch a 69,000 V line, while grounded, sudden death.
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Old 03-02-2018, 08:01 PM
 
Location: la la land
27,202 posts, read 11,367,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
While you can argue the need for Unions in the for profit private sector (and that would include multilevel marketeers) we certainly need to get rid of public sector unions. They already have maximum security, amazing benefits and plenty of holidays.
What is stopping private sector employees from unionizing and getting the same thing?
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Old 03-02-2018, 08:04 PM
 
Location: la la land
27,202 posts, read 11,367,475 times
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Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Public sector unions protect the stupid, the incompetent, the lazy, and those with ridiculous degrees. And the "diversity hires".

To say that they "fight" for this and that is also ridiculous. Fight whom? The "Man"? Comrade Redguard, you have aptly named yourself.

Back in the day of the "robber barons", a private company union made some sense. Labor laws were weak then and some workers truly were poorly paid for long hours in often dangerous conditions. Enter OSHA and labor laws and we have seen the massive drop in private union membership percentages.

Enter the stupid public union idea. Who is the owner that sits on the other side of the bargaining table from the public union? Are the taxpayers allowed to sit on that side? No, the managers who are also unionized and employees of the public. Duh, WIN WIN for the public service workers, and LOSE LOSE for the taxpayers. Even if legislators sat on the other side of the table, they are elected and therefore subject to the money politics that unions play.

In my home state here, there has been a blitzkrieg of union adverts on youtube of late. Yup, they are beginning to fear for their place at the feeding trough. Good deal!

But hey, Redguard, keep on coming with those union talking points. I'll start you out here:

1. Without public unions, THE MAN is going to come to your house and throw grandma into the snowbank.
2. Without public unions, THE MAN will force workers to clock in 26 hours a day for 8 days a week.
3. ....
go negotiate with the CEO for a pay raise and come back and tell us how well that worked for you. Wage stagnation is due at least in part to the decline of unions in the private sector.
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Old 03-02-2018, 08:07 PM
 
Location: la la land
27,202 posts, read 11,367,475 times
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Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
Utilities are monopolies. There's some competition but it's mostly in generation. The utility unions have extracted the surplus value of their work, which would go to consumers in competitive industries, and kept it for themselves.
When did the surplus value of work ever go to consumers?
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:06 PM
 
2,700 posts, read 3,750,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
go negotiate with the CEO for a pay raise and come back and tell us how well that worked for you. Wage stagnation is due at least in part to the decline of unions in the private sector.
I don't need to negotiate with the CEO for a pay raise. My skills and training are in demand the way it is.

Sorry to say, but you put forth a very weak argument for public unions.
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Old 03-03-2018, 05:50 AM
 
3,724 posts, read 1,670,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liledgy View Post
Bla bla bla, everything you stated is based a "someone said this, that". while every employee has different skills, workmanship, ethics, it certainly is not restricted to unions. As far as his drunk brother, is beyond stupid that a union would defend a drunken (or stoned) person. It certainly wouldn't happen in my local. In fact the workers would be taking upon themselves to make sure that would never happen. Saying a cable tv installer is similar to a electrical lineman is laughable. The. Why aren't they lineman? Yes they use a hoist, grips, use hooks/belts (to go maybe 15') and that's about it. They drive a truck too, use a computer.
So they are similar? You're not saying anything where they're different.

Yes, it's someone says this, someone says that. Except everyone says the same thing.

My post was in relation to public employee unions. In the real private sector, which excludes utilities, it might be different. But in the public sector, the example of my father-in-law's brother is not anomalous. The cops around here act like frat boys. The teachers' union defends incompetents. Firemen are seen more often in the supermarket (to which they drive their firetrucks) than at fires.
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Old 03-03-2018, 06:20 AM
 
1,939 posts, read 3,304,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
They have some kind of industry-wide bargaining. Wages are set for the whole car industry, e.g. In the US, the UAW used pattern bargaining, which was similar but they'd pick the strongest company to set the pattern and the others (i.e., Chrysler) would have to follow or be struck. This caused Chrysler's bankruptcy.
WRONG!

Wages are set on a plant by plant basis. Obviously there are comparisons made by those on both sides of the bargaining table, but the wages are determined by the Local Management and Local Union.

Having spent years managing both Union and Salaried personnel in auto plants, I found it easier to manage the Union employees. The Local Agreement also stipulates all plant rules and the consequences of violating them.

If an union employee breaks Rule A, their discipline is X, Y, or Z depending on how many time they broke this or a similar rule. Records are maintained by both sides detailing this occurrence and discipline information. With Salary it is always difficult to even find out how many times an employee broke a general knowledge but unwritten rule. The 'bad eggs' on the Salaried side tend to float from group to group with no one taking a stand. HR doesn't even help, it is 100% on the immediate Supervisor.

During my tenure as a supervisor of Salaried employees I fired three people and turned one general consensus 'bad egg' into a super star. The supervisors just need to do what they are paid to do, regardless of the union or non-union status of their employees.
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Old 03-03-2018, 06:51 AM
 
3,724 posts, read 1,670,856 times
Reputation: 5123
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Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
WRONG!

Wages are set on a plant by plant basis. Obviously there are comparisons made by those on both sides of the bargaining table, but the wages are determined by the Local Management and Local Union.

Having spent years managing both Union and Salaried personnel in auto plants, I found it easier to manage the Union employees. The Local Agreement also stipulates all plant rules and the consequences of violating them.

If an union employee breaks Rule A, their discipline is X, Y, or Z depending on how many time they broke this or a similar rule. Records are maintained by both sides detailing this occurrence and discipline information. With Salary it is always difficult to even find out how many times an employee broke a general knowledge but unwritten rule. The 'bad eggs' on the Salaried side tend to float from group to group with no one taking a stand. HR doesn't even help, it is 100% on the immediate Supervisor.

During my tenure as a supervisor of Salaried employees I fired three people and turned one general consensus 'bad egg' into a super star. The supervisors just need to do what they are paid to do, regardless of the union or non-union status of their employees.
Maybe recently, maybe since they went bankrupt. But not historically.

"In the United States, pattern bargaining was pioneered by unions such as the United Auto Workers and the Teamsters. The first step of the bargaining process is the identification of a target employer that is most likely to agree to a favourable employment contract. For the selected company, this provides an opportunity to influence the contract for the industry, while the downside is the risk of a labour disruption if negotiations stall or fail. Once this contract has been successfully negotiated and ratified by the unionized workers, the union declares it a "pattern agreement" and presents it to the other employers as a take-it-or-leave-it offer."

That's from Wikipedia but it's true of pre-2007 relations. It's also what bankrupted Chrysler and GM.

The UAW has changed its tune since 200. Although it seems to be drifting back to some of the old ways, especially regarding two-tier wages.
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Old 03-03-2018, 06:53 AM
 
3,724 posts, read 1,670,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
When did the surplus value of work ever go to consumers?
When you buy food, clothes, housing, etc. There are no excess profits or rents in those and most private industries.
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