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Old 03-04-2018, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,170 posts, read 4,733,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
It seems to me to be tied to how deep a pool of sweat we generated. If we don't sweat any more, if "productivity" is in the hands of machines and a steadily shrinking pool of human overseers, what relevance does it have to the overall economy?
GDP is the size of the pie, and productivity is that divided by the hours of work needed to make it.

If the pie can keep getting bigger while we do whatever we like (not work) then that is a pretty good scenario, yes? Provided that the pie gets dived up to all us worthless slackers. As I endlessly opine in that other thread, the issue is that the pie will not be dived up to all us slackers without an organized and concerted effort to acheive that outcome. The "natural" result will be poverty, marginalization, loss of freedom and rights, etc. And that is the optimistic scenario.
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Old 03-04-2018, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,009 posts, read 1,023,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
GDP is the size of the pie, and productivity is that divided by the hours of work needed to make it.

If the pie can keep getting bigger while we do whatever we like (not work) then that is a pretty good scenario, yes?
Okay. I can work with that. The term seems to be often used to represent... something else. Maybe those are my misreading.
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Old 03-04-2018, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,170 posts, read 4,733,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
What both of you seem to be missing, or willfully ignore, is that there is (and always was) a class of professionals, or artisans, or priests or warriors, who served the “oligarchs” and held the peasants in contempt.
If you think I'm ignoring that, you haven't been paying attention.

Quote:
The great anomaly of modern American society, is that so many of the peasants managed to attain professional/artisan level of material wherewithal. Now those peasants are falling back into their historical place, owing to technology and globalization.
Not American only, but all countries which have developed via industrialization. Tech was actually why the peasants got rich in the first place. And do you understand why? To be more accurate the first causes of "falling back" were that the oligarchs devised a scheme where they could take all the profits (again), via primarily globalization, fiat currency, and debt escalation.

The 2nd wave due to AI will be far worse than "falling back" to the historical place of being exploited and used. It will be total irrelevance.

Quote:
You also seem to be persuaded, that something is fundamentally amiss.
Only because I believe that life, liberty, and happiness are fundamental.

Quote:
Arguably, the most basic human desire isn’t to go to heaven, to be loved, to enjoy a satiating meal, to watch our kids grow up and flourish, or to win the lottery. It’s to lord over somebody beneath one, and to kiss up to somebody above. We crave the affirmation and pat-on-the-head by an overlord. We crave the sheer sadistic joy of kicking in the ribs somebody who’s already down.
You seriously believe that, or are you joking? I suppose that among the extremely greedy power-hungry cohort that may be true, but for the great majority of us peasants, this isn't the case. I don't have one iota of desire to be lorded or lord over.
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Old 03-04-2018, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,009 posts, read 1,023,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
If you think I'm ignoring that, you haven't been paying attention.
No kidding. It's off-the-wall babble like this that makes progress in these discussions so hard; a thread of endless posters who are only briefly and intermittently readers. "Whoops, hit a keyword, gotta pour out a few hundred words of recycled diatribe!"

Quote:
I suppose that among the extremely greedy power-hungry cohort that may be true, but for the great majority of us peasants, this isn't the case. I don't have one iota of desire to be lorded or lord over.
Now you're not reading - or just being more polite than I am. There are Those Among Us who are adamant about having their power and money and too-damn-bad for anyone not on their level. Real? Deluded? Echo'ed? Trolls? I don't know. But you don't have to go far to find this mindset - in here or out there.

Sad, to coin a phrase.
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,170 posts, read 4,733,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Now you're not reading - or just being more polite than I am. There are Those Among Us who are adamant about having their power and money and too-damn-bad for anyone not on their level. Real? Deluded? Echo'ed? Trolls? I don't know. But you don't have to go far to find this mindset - in here or out there.
I don't think it's rare, and you see plenty of examples of it on here. But "the most basic human desire"?

I suppose we could surmise that back in the most extreme dog-eat-dog days, survival and propagation would have naturally accrued to those who absolutely loved killing and subjugating the peace loving tribe next door. But in more modern times, I don't see any natural selection tending in this direction, or much behavior that would attest to it. Maybe the desire is lurking and mostly hidden in the peasantry's subconscious more than I realize. I believe this trait is ignited by fear of survival more than anything. But it wouldn't be the first time I made a grave error in assuming that people were more like me than they actually are.
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,009 posts, read 1,023,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
I don't think it's rare, and you see plenty of examples of it on here. But "the most basic human desire"?
Well, I'd like to think otherwise.

Ever heard/read Heinlein's "This I Believe" essay? From an author/pundit venerated by the libertarian, individualist, get-off-my[-economic]-lawn crowd, it's a surprisingly stirring paean to humanity.

Audio is better but it appears to have been diligently removed from the internet.
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:48 PM
 
2,769 posts, read 1,498,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Well, I'd like to think otherwise.

Ever heard/read Heinlein's "This I Believe" essay? From an author/pundit venerated by the libertarian, individualist, get-off-my[-economic]-lawn crowd, it's a surprisingly stirring paean to humanity.

Audio is better but it appears to have been diligently removed from the internet.
Nope. Still around and quite easy to find.

https://thisibelieve.org/essay/16630/
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Old 03-04-2018, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,009 posts, read 1,023,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damba View Post
Nope. Still around and quite easy to find.
Ah, fascinating. I didn't realize the '50s series had been... continued. One of Murrow's finer, if smaller legacies.

Went right by it in the search list.
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Old 03-04-2018, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
2,174 posts, read 800,407 times
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The USA has a per capital GDP about four times the rest of the world. How much more will it take to make you happy? How much did your president promise you, to get you to vote for him?
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Old 03-04-2018, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,009 posts, read 1,023,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
The USA has a per capital GDP about four times the rest of the world.
By my references, the US is about 20th in GDP per capita. Around tenth once you toss out some microcountries that skew the data.

Did you just mean "GDP"? Because then the US, EU and China are roughly equal, with Japan (#4) being about one quarter of the three leaders.

Did you leave all your reference books behind when you ex-patted?
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