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Old 03-04-2018, 05:34 PM
 
8,021 posts, read 6,222,835 times
Reputation: 12004

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
System is out of control on every level that you look at it:

* Obamacare failed - as everyone with an IQ above, well about 60, could have predicted.
* Social Security is now running a deficit which will only get worse over time unless something is done.
* Corporate welfare also out of control.
* National debt keeps climbing.

We've got the right guy in there IMO - Trump - the system sure wasn't going to change by electing Hillary Clinton, in fact it was only going to get worse. It has to be fixed by an outsider and a new way of thinking.

One more point -- what we don't fix ourselves -- the laws of economics will fix for us. It may take 50 years, but it will be fixed. In plain terms, there is no free lunch.
Trump has no interest in fixing Corporate welfare and the debt is slated to increase astronomically under him. He like other politicians will do whatever it takes to bolster his own ego. Not what is best.

 
Old 03-04-2018, 05:58 PM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,483 posts, read 1,708,335 times
Reputation: 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
System is out of control on every level that you look at it:

* Obamacare failed - as everyone with an IQ above, well about 60, could have predicted.
* Social Security is now running a deficit which will only get worse over time unless something is done.
* Corporate welfare also out of control.
* National debt keeps climbing.
the only problem I see with all 4 points is rich folks don't want to pay their fair share in taxes.

By Fair, I mean rich people (defined by individuals earning more than $1.5 million a year AGI) need to pay alot more.

I know, it's a very touchy subject but when the disparity between rich and middle income continues to widen, it's not because people on the upper end are working harder.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 06:48 PM
 
608 posts, read 281,196 times
Reputation: 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslinger256 View Post
the only problem I see with all 4 points is rich folks don't want to pay their fair share in taxes.

By Fair, I mean rich people (defined by individuals earning more than $1.5 million a year AGI) need to pay alot more.

I know, it's a very touchy subject but when the disparity between rich and middle income continues to widen, it's not because people on the upper end are working harder.
There aren't enough "rich" people around to rob for your plan to make any difference at the federal level. If you confiscated everything they own, it wouldn't run our profligate government for even two years.

Now here is the tricky part -- rich people can live wherever they want. If you **** them off, they can move somewhere else (yes I know, some laws changed 15 years ago to make it harder). If only a hundred thousand of the wealthiest people left the tax rolls, the feds would have no choice but to increase the rates on everyone else.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Ohio
17,998 posts, read 13,238,246 times
Reputation: 13781
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslinger256 View Post
the only problem I see with all 4 points is rich folks don't want to pay their fair share in taxes.
They do pay their share of taxes. There is no logical reason to force people to pay more, just because they earn more.

Jealousy runs rampant among some groups, and it's not very becoming.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 06:57 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,664 posts, read 64,140,481 times
Reputation: 68447
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Now is the time to get entitlement spending under control.

I find these charts compelling, and fit within the category of "any trend that cannot go on forever, won't."

The first chart shows entitlement spending per year divided by the number of US Citizens. It is the entitlement cost per person. It now stands at $7500 per citizen.



The second chart shows entitlement spending as a percent of GDP. We're now up to 13%.



Our economy is doing well: unemployment numbers are way down, employment numbers are way up, GDP numbers are up, tax receipts are up, business optimism is up, consumer optimism is up... By most economic measures, things are going well.

Except that at the federal level, there appears to be no check on total expenditures.

We have known for decades that the fundamental US problem is promised entitlement spending far beyond what our current tax system can fund. Markets have presumed that the US would fix this problem sooner or later. It's not that hard as a matter of economics. In the interim, investors buy short-term US bonds, with the anticipation that one year hence someone else will lend the federal government money to roll over the debt so that at some time in the future the US will fix the expenditure problem. This strategy works - until it doesn't.

But what's our excuse now? At 4% unemployment, after 8+ years of uninterrupted growth, if we can't sit down now and solve the problem, when will we? Markets have a right to think perhaps the US federal government is so fractured we won't be able to fix this problem in time.

Or, more accurately, markets have a right to worry that next year's markets will have that worry, and get out now.
Well, then, I guess Bush and Chump shouldn't have slashed taxes, should they have? You said it yourself.

It's pretty basic math.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 08:37 PM
 
8,504 posts, read 2,389,571 times
Reputation: 8123
Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist View Post
That being said, there definitely is a huge amount of abuse of these programs. But the answer is not to cut the funding. The answer is to tighten up eligibility - count assets in determination, even look at lifestyle (gasp!).

When people with Medicaid are driving up to the doctor's office in their Lexus SUVs, something is wrong. When people with Medicaid are flying home to Pakistan every year, with a stop off pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia on the way, something is wrong.

The quickest way to end the fraud would be to have well-staffed reporting phone and email lines, for anonymous reporters, and an army of investigators.
But one Party has as a major aim - "Make government small enough to drown it in the bath tub". This is no sideline but a guy who has been considered one of the biggest movers and shakers in the GOP for decades.

"Small Government" does not include legions of people spying on your lifestyle.

I do agree with counting assets but since there is no laws regarding disclosure of assets that is going to be a tough one. People will say they made it 30 years ago by selling some stuff they found at yard sales. How is the government going to prove otherwise.

Just for one data point I asked Fidelity and Vanguard for my returns from before 2003 (Fidelity only goes back that far). Guess what? Neither of them have records of decades of my investing. I'm sure they exist somewhere in a vault.

Just as an ICE raid cost 6 Million dollars (10 million by the time they are finished), the cost of making people conform it too great.

If we were really for "small government" we'd slap a VAT on most everything and enforce it - which would be much easier since most all corporations are electronically based and would know it would kill their business if they cheated.

So, when are we going to pass a law that says you can force people to disclose their assets accurately? Heck, we can't even get the POTUS tax returns.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 08:42 PM
 
8,504 posts, read 2,389,571 times
Reputation: 8123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Well, then, I guess Bush and Chump shouldn't have slashed taxes, should they have? You said it yourself.

It's pretty basic math.
Of course they should not have - cutting taxes out of debt and deficit is foolish....doesn't take even a high school education to know that.

But give enough free (newly minted and printed) money to enough people and they will love you for it. Greed will be our undoing.

Note that the real numbers in FRAUD are people like Rick Scots United Health where they stole 100's of millions (or more) from Medicare and Medicaid. Doctors and other businesses have been caught regularly stealing 10-100 million. It's big business.

If the US Population is practicing "capitalism" over "For The People", it's just not going to work. When everyone is out for number one (themselves), that includes cannibalism (in the financial sense)....

We have the money to do great things - but instead are paying double for health care, enlarging the Security State, etc.

Hey, who cares? I have mine. You get yours or you sink.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 08:57 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 6,456,872 times
Reputation: 4928
Letís also talk about Trump and his administration spending excessive amounts of our tax dollars on things like private planes, a $31,000 dining table for Carsonís office, and Trumpís almost weekly trips to Mar-a-Lago. Plus all the wasted money on trips and perks that havenít come out yet.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
27,448 posts, read 17,629,902 times
Reputation: 39933
Quote:
Originally Posted by staywarm2 View Post
Letís also talk about Trump and his administration spending excessive amounts of our tax dollars on things like private planes, a $31,000 dining table for Carsonís office, and Trumpís almost weekly trips to Mar-a-Lago. Plus all the wasted money on trips and perks that havenít come out yet.

The fun part is Trump charges the government top rates for his security detail to stay at Mar a lago, it's costing millions every time he goes there, and most of that money goes into his pocket via the corporation. It's a nice scam.
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:58 AM
 
Location: R.I.
876 posts, read 522,293 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by staywarm2 View Post
Letís also talk about Trump and his administration spending excessive amounts of our tax dollars on things like private planes, a $31,000 dining table for Carsonís office, and Trumpís almost weekly trips to Mar-a-Lago. Plus all the wasted money on trips and perks that havenít come out yet.

Let's also talk about some of the travel expenses Obama and his family cost the tax payers. Based on the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests of the Secret Service and the Airforce, the Government watchdog Judicial Watch reported the costs of the Obama family travel during his eight years in office cost of total of $99,714.527. And since you like to speculate I like to also and I speculate those costs are likely much higher. Some of those travel costs included:

2014 spring break family trip to Key Largo - $1,133,510
2015 trip Michelle took to Aspen - $121,876
2016/2017 family Christmas trip to Honolulu - $2,548,602

It is certainly your prerogative to keep a tally of and speculate on President Trump's travel and other expenses, and please do report back at the end of his presidency possibly seven years from now what they totaled because I for one would like to know this information. And while you are keeping this expense tally you might want to keep one on former President Obama and his family because he and his family continue to receive taxpayer funded Secret Service, and since he left office he continues to travel extensively which has included trips to Palm Springs and French Polynesia which no doubt had a pricey Secret Service tab.
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