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Old 03-10-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,091 posts, read 2,824,222 times
Reputation: 12110

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Got it. Youíve got nothing, and are simply reduced to flinging insults.
Observations are not insults. I've read hundreds of your posts to get to this conclusion.

 
Old 03-10-2018, 11:08 AM
 
6,064 posts, read 2,791,474 times
Reputation: 5966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
(excuse the rearrangement) I don't actually have an ideology except in that my view of the future is shaped by likely, but as-yet unproven assumptions. It's that these assumptions are at nearly total odds with conventional econ theory that causes all the trouble. (Your ideology, which you have quite clearly expressed in many posts, is the tired old "tomorrow will be like yesterday, only more so, but maybe with flying cars or something.")

But to return to our muttonchops -


Benefits from whom? Paid for by whom?
Government provided benefits. Itís pretty clear in what I wrote.

Quote:
That's the complete opposite of anything I've ever said. Are you muttoning with me, or the whole pack of rabble here?
Go back and look at the original post that has you in such a lather. I wasnít responding to you.
 
Old 03-10-2018, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,091 posts, read 2,824,222 times
Reputation: 12110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Government provided benefits. Itís pretty clear in what I wrote.
Well, no, you go back and forth between government and WalMart. Wasn't entirely sure which $15k you meant in your breviary.

Quote:
Go back and look at the original post that has you in such a lather. I wasnít responding to you.
1) I have; 2) I'm not in a lather and 3) okay - I won't bother trying to untangle your circular sorite any further.

Until next time.
 
Old 03-10-2018, 12:42 PM
 
774 posts, read 396,447 times
Reputation: 566
Wow, 34 pages and I just opened this thread up. Here I thought the original poster was proposing getting rid of tax shelters, TIF districts, abatement, treating ALL income the same. Silly me. I have to laugh at the statement that someone stated the capital investment is "riskier" than earned income, therefore capital gains should be less.
 
Old 03-10-2018, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,073 posts, read 12,404,296 times
Reputation: 19023
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Name 10 loopholes. I dare you. I double-dog dare you.
I posted a bunch of loopholes, but the consensus was they were not loopholes, they were entitlements. The rich are entitled to lower tax rates and a subsidy for their losses. My mistake.
 
Old 03-10-2018, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,073 posts, read 12,404,296 times
Reputation: 19023
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Once again for those who missed it the first time. . .

We as a society have decided that we need a social safety net to provide for those ďless fortunate.Ē For the sake of discussion, letís assume that the value of that comprehensive array of benefits is $30,000 per year. One can access those benefits just be existing - nothing more needs to be done.

Letís look at the example of Bob. . .

Now, when Bob is on the dole, ALL of us pay for that comprehensive array of benefits that Bob is receiving (well, all of us that pay taxes, that is). Why? Because as a society, we decided it was important for us to do so.

Now Bob decides that he wants to get a job. Who-hoo! So Bob starts looking, but he is unsuccessful. It turns out that Bob spent his formative years smoking pot and playing video games. He didnít graduate from high school, he has no skills, and no work ethic. Bob has nothing to offer an employer. However, Wal-Mart, a great American company with a wonderful sense of social responsibility steps up and gives Bob a job. Now remember, Bob canít actually do anything. So he becomes one of those Wal-Mart employees that just wanders around with a dazed look on their face, and clogging up the aisles, and occasionally picking an item up off the floor where it has fallen and puts it back on the shelf. Wal-Mart, being a very socially responsible company, pays Bob $7.50/hour, $.25/hour more than the Federal Minimum wage, and allows him to work 40 hours per week.

Letís review the financials and make sure everyoneís on the same page. . .

While on the public dole, Bob got $30,000/year in benefits, paid for by the taxpayer. Working for Wal-Mart, Bob gets $15,000 year, paid for by Wal-Mart.

Now, since Bob only makes $15,000 at his job, but we as a society have determined that Bob deserves $30,000, we as a society provide him with $15,000 in benefits to make up the difference.

The perverse result of all this is that you and others of your ilk believe that since Wal-Mart was gracious enough to give Bob a job, that Wal-Mart should now assume 100% of societyís obligation to Bob, even though Bob only provides $15,000 in value to Wal-Mart. And worse still, you accuse Wal-Mart of being subsidized for this little scenario, when nothing could be further from the truth (it is impossible for Wal-Mart to be subsidized for its labor when, in every instance, it pays a market rate for labor).

The reality is that by giving Bob a job, Wal-Mart has SAVED the taxpayers $15,000 a year. And your response to this is to excoriate Wal-Mart at every turn. You, and the rest of your ilk that share such misguided beliefs, should be ashamed of yourselves.
This is insanity. It's one more example of entitlements for the rich. Walmart gets to make millions of dollars in profits on the backs of the workers and government programs to support them. They would still be nicely profitable if they doubled the wages they pay, but they have a nice scam going and aren't going to change until they are forced to.

Shop at Costco instead.
 
Old 03-10-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,073 posts, read 12,404,296 times
Reputation: 19023
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Since it is irrelevant to point that I made, and was simply me having a good time with the writing, strip out the embellishments and concentrate on the important parts:

Full time at $7.50/hour, and receiving an additional $15,000 in benefits.

Why is societyís burden now Wal-Martís alone?

Surely you can understand this, if you arenít too blinded by your ideology.
Why is Wal-Mart's burden now society's? It's their business, and they can easily afford to double their hourly wages. Why should the general public subsidize a bunch of rich people? It's a scam and they know it. You apparently haven't figured it out yet.
 
Old 03-10-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,091 posts, read 2,824,222 times
Reputation: 12110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
This is insanity. It's one more example of entitlements for the rich. Walmart gets to make millions of dollars in profits on the backs of the workers and government programs to support them. They would still be nicely profitable if they doubled the wages they pay, but they have a nice scam going and aren't going to change until they are forced to.
But it is a perfect, logically-correct syllogism... from a conventional economic standpoint.

I have an excellent analogy to what's happening with economics right now, but this thread is too long and baggaged already. Short version: it doesn't matter how well your F1 car is designed and refined if there's a brick wall across the road.

Quote:
Shop at Costco instead.
What, because they take trivially better care of their low-end warehouse employees? Sure. it's a "collect the pop tops for diabetes" feel-good move, but you might as well think you feel good.
 
Old 03-10-2018, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,073 posts, read 12,404,296 times
Reputation: 19023
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Got it. Youíve got nothing, and are simply reduced to flinging insults.

Carry on.
You are the one who tries to end every discussion with an ad hominem.
 
Old 03-10-2018, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,073 posts, read 12,404,296 times
Reputation: 19023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
But it is a perfect, logically-correct syllogism... from a conventional economic standpoint.

I have an excellent analogy to what's happening with economics right now, but this thread is too long and baggaged already. Short version: it doesn't matter how well your F1 car is designed and refined if there's a brick wall across the road.


What, because they take trivially better care of their low-end warehouse employees? Sure. it's a "collect the pop tops for diabetes" feel-good move, but you might as well think you feel good.
For some definitions of economics. From my point of view, America has devolved to a bread-and-circuses economy. SNAP and TV, except a growing percentage of the population doesn't have a place to cook or keep a TV. About a third of the country is three paychecks from being homeless, and the supposed "economists" are just testing how much big money they can dip out of the public treasury.

As for Costco, don't be cynical about companies that really do better.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...n_4275774.html
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