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Old 03-02-2018, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
Reputation: 3849

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
So...you stopped reading at that sentence?
Nope, read it all. (Was forum-polite by not quoting the entire block, but I'm old-fashioned - after all, it's only three posts back in the chain.)

You outline what you think entitlements consist of. Had you answered my question, I wouldn't have asked it. But if two sentences exceed your attention span...

 
Old 03-02-2018, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
Reputation: 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Isn't this the discussion that should have been had before the tax reform bill was passed?
Aw, naw... hell, naw... that would have just slowed down Warren's $29 billion giftie.
 
Old 03-02-2018, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,397,122 times
Reputation: 8783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
So...you stopped reading at that sentence?

My main point is that the majority of entitlements are not what we think they are - welfare, etc. But Medical and SS old age benifits. Thus the topic of discussion should be really directed into that direction.
I would like a crash program to improve peoples attention span.
It's really not SS pensions that's a problem. We know how many people there are, we can predict more or less how long they're likely to live & draw the pension. Easily planned for.

Social Security Disability is a somewhat worse problem. There are more people taking SSDI than we thought ever would... a lot of people became "permanently disabled" when the recession hit & remain that way. Still, that's a manageable issue.

The big elephant in the room is health care. If we want to get the budget under control we have to address health care costs. The out-of-control graph is because health care costs increase 10% per year, and we're getting more old people that need care.

The health care problem IS our deficit problem.

It is not just the government's problem - it affects every company's budget, every non-profit, every individual family who buys health insurance. We will get the health care cost problem under control or 110% of all our dollars will eventually go towards it. It will suck up all the money at this rate of increase. Obamacare tried to close a couple of the gaps regarding coverage, and it did slow the cost curve a bit, but most of that is deceptive accounting because higher deductibles mean people are just staying sicker longer until the bow breaks. It did little to fundamentally address the cost issue.
 
Old 03-02-2018, 02:26 PM
 
11,571 posts, read 17,506,588 times
Reputation: 17225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Nope, read it all. (Was forum-polite by not quoting the entire block, but I'm old-fashioned - after all, it's only three posts back in the chain.)

You outline what you think entitlements consist of. Had you answered my question, I wouldn't have asked it. But if two sentences exceed your attention span...
I didn't answer your question because your question was rhetorical and nonsensical, and more importantly not focused on the right issues.

Once again focus on the two issues: 1.) Cost of health care, and 2.) Social Security. Those are the two areas that are responsible for exploding the entitlement spending. You should be asking: how do we reduce the cost of health care? You should be asking: how do we address the cost of old age benefits in an demographically aging society?
 
Old 03-02-2018, 02:27 PM
 
8,021 posts, read 6,227,076 times
Reputation: 12004
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
Social security shouldn't be in this conversation. It's not an entitlement. I've paid into that all my life. Well, at least for 40 years.

Say what you will about our current administration. The federal agencies are doing some scrambling to justify their budgets. They're not just getting handouts. They're being scrutinized. The Pentagon is having their first real audit in probably forever.

It goes without saying all spending is being scrutinized, as it should be. Taxpayers should demand transparency in federal spending. Good stewardship. We have to budget our own spending. The government should budget the spending they do with our money.
So should that dcrutiny include military and defense spending? They're government agencies. How much money did the Pentagon squander again?
 
Old 03-02-2018, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
Reputation: 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I didn't answer your question because your question was rhetorical and nonsensical, and more importantly not focused on the right issues.
Okay. Gosh, sorry I didn't measure up to your millimeter-wide framing of the issues. Went right by me in the avalanche of real-world concerns.
 
Old 03-02-2018, 02:32 PM
 
11,571 posts, read 17,506,588 times
Reputation: 17225
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
It's really not SS pensions that's a problem. We know how many people there are, we can predict more or less how long they're likely to live & draw the pension. Easily planned for.

Social Security Disability is a somewhat worse problem. There are more people taking SSDI than we thought ever would... a lot of people became "permanently disabled" when the recession hit & remain that way. Still, that's a manageable issue.

The big elephant in the room is health care. If we want to get the budget under control we have to address health care costs. The out-of-control graph is because health care costs increase 10% per year, and we're getting more old people that need care.

The health care problem IS our deficit problem.

It is not just the government's problem - it affects every company's budget, every non-profit, every individual family who buys health insurance. We will get the health care cost problem under control or 110% of all our dollars will eventually go towards it. It will suck up all the money at this rate of increase. Obamacare tried to close a couple of the gaps regarding coverage, and it did slow the cost curve a bit, but most of that is deceptive accounting because higher deductibles mean people are just staying sicker longer until the bow breaks. It did little to fundamentally address the cost issue.
There we go - someone that is paying attention! Thank you.

Social Security yup - that can be improved by tweaking - raising the retirement age slightly, increase SS tax slightly, COLA reductions. None of that is politically acceptable but sooner or later the US will be forced to take those actions.
HealthCare is indeed the elephant in the room. Even more difficult to solve because it's such a huge complex industry. People misunderstand that as well - it's not a simple solution of providing free health care, but reducing the cost of healthcare, which is the per person the highest in the world.
 
Old 03-02-2018, 02:33 PM
 
11,571 posts, read 17,506,588 times
Reputation: 17225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Okay. Gosh, sorry I didn't measure up to your millimeter-wide framing of the issues. Went right by me in the avalanche of real-world concerns.
See ya--IGNORE
 
Old 03-02-2018, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
Reputation: 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
See ya--IGNORE
Econ mavens welded to the current structure never care to have anyone kick the pillars.

That's okay. You'll all go when it does. S'long.
 
Old 03-02-2018, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,018 posts, read 13,247,591 times
Reputation: 13822
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
Agree with everything you said except the first two sentences.
Social Security MUST be in the conversation. Maybe not for cuts to existing retirees, but certainly for other areas such as gradual raising of the full retirement age.
Social security is an entitlement.
Social Security is self-funding through the FICA Payroll Tax.

While there is a projected short-fall leading to benefit cuts of 25% that will come sooner than most people anticipate, that can be remedied by increasing the FICA Payroll Tax to 8.5% for employer and employee -- which should have been increasing in small increments since 1990 -- or by increasing the FICA Payroll Tax to 7.35% for employer and employee and eliminating the cap on Social Security wages, since merely eliminating the cap is not sufficient to cover the short-fall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Social Security Disability is a somewhat worse problem. There are more people taking SSDI than we thought ever would....
In December 2014, only 4.1% of the working age population received Social Security Disability benefits, compared to 1.3% in December 1970.

While that is an increase of 215%, diseases of the musculoskeletal system and connective tissue are the primary reason workers are disabled.

It should be understood that such diseases were unknown or undetectable in 1970 and were not diagnosed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
There we go - someone that is paying attention! Thank you.

Social Security yup - that can be improved by tweaking - raising the retirement age slightly, increase SS tax slightly, COLA reductions.
Raising the retirement age displaces younger workers, resulting in systemic unemployment, unless a significant number of new jobs are created to absorb younger workers.

If you're arguing that COLA should be eliminated, then you should also argue that wages not be indexed for Inflation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
Medicare is different, because the Medicare Tax has only been collected since the reign of Bush (No New Taxes) The Elder, so the Medicare trust fund is smaller and will soon be exhausted.
On what planet are you living?

People have been paying the HI (Medicare) Tax on wages since 1966.

The HI Payroll Tax was 0.35% of wages in 1966.
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