U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-23-2018, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,961 posts, read 1,012,279 times
Reputation: 3776

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
How is that these huge malls are doing so much better?
I think the answers are already in the thread: the suburban mall is dying for several reasons, but the ones supported by a major urban center are still viable because of (1) a concentration of well-heeled shoppers and (2) a lack of such combined shopping within the cities themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-23-2018, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
8,139 posts, read 7,463,231 times
Reputation: 17039
Bal Harbour is a crazy, rich mall. I can't see them slipping anytime, ever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2018, 07:59 AM
 
8,195 posts, read 4,395,735 times
Reputation: 2692
I would say, yes, wrt to King of Prussia Mall(outside of Phila.). King of Prussia Mall has most of the extremely high end retail in the Phila metro. It grew from a basic strip mall around 50 years ago and has never had a downtime, afaik.

I would also, say, perhaps, wrt to Cherry Hill Mall, in NJ also in the Philly metro. Cherry Mall is the one of the oldest, if not the oldest, enclosed, climate-controlled, mall in the country. It's also 50+ years old. At least one mall near it died, while Cherry Hill still attracts shoppers aplenty.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2018, 08:55 AM
 
5,750 posts, read 3,035,945 times
Reputation: 15087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I think the answers are already in the thread: the suburban mall is dying for several reasons, but the ones supported by a major urban center are still viable because of (1) a concentration of well-heeled shoppers and (2) a lack of such combined shopping within the cities themselves.
I'd say another part is the viability of the stores inside the malls themselves. We watched this with a mall near us in the 90s. Started out with the typical anchor stores, Sears on one end, Kmart the other, with Macy's and Mervyns in the middle opposite each other. With a pretty decent collection of stores in between, most locally run and focused. Over time the locally run stores that provided variety disappeared to be replaced by the standard mall stores all selling the same junk at high prices, which inevitably failed to be replaced by another standard mall stores selling the same junk. The two locally owned bookstores were replaced by a giant Borders. With nothing to buy, shopping within the mall fell off. People would shop at Sears, then get in their car and drive around to the other side to shop at Kmart. And so forth. And of course we all know what happened to Borders, Mervyns, Macy's, and Sears/Kmart.


Personally I think part of it of course on line shopping. But I also think a big part is the anchor and chain stores are so poorly managed. A lot of malls were built around the concept of Sears at one end and Penny's at the other to draw in customers and get them to walk from end to end and back again. Without those anchor stores, there's nothing in the middle to go to the mall for.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2018, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,961 posts, read 1,012,279 times
Reputation: 3776
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Over time the locally run stores that provided variety disappeared to be replaced by the standard mall stores all selling the same junk at high prices, which inevitably failed to be replaced by another standard mall stores selling the same junk.
Anyone who has traveled much in the past couple of decades, especially anyone who has driven across a major part of the country in long drives, is completely aware that "malls" have been largely replaced by those giant Disneyfied roadside shopping parks, whose design was brilliantly tagged "cartoonitecuture." And that they all have the same stores, town after town, region after region, state after state. It is exceedingly rare to see even a regional chain store in such, and vanishingly rare to see any kind of independent store.

They are neither walkable nor drivable (by design), but could only have more exposure with continuous fireworks displays and thus suck all business from the surrounding area, with the combination of garish presence and Big Known Names. The same names. Over and over.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2018, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
13,132 posts, read 7,387,994 times
Reputation: 27249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
Mall of America is noticeably missing from this list as it has been touted as a big tourist attraction.

Also, noticeably missing area Lennox Square in Atlanta and the Galleria in Houston.
I found that interesting as well. The Galleria is jam packed all the time. Forget finding a parking space. My sister makes me drag here there to go ice skating every time she comes into town. The shops are ridiculously expensive though. It caters to the wealthy. It is nothing special, IMO. I thought Mall of America would be on the list as well too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2018, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,961 posts, read 1,012,279 times
Reputation: 3776
Interesting, in trying to come up with some figures for Mall of America (vaguely valued at $1.6-2B, sales per sf not reliably found) quite a few of these "Top 10 Malls" lists come up over the last few years, most from nominally reliable sources (not listicle factories). There's not much overlap. I suggest the ranking is... subjective.

MOA doesn't appear to be on any of them. For all the hype, it is in Minnesota. The only top-10 mall in a smaller state appears to be Las Vegas (and maybe Hawaii) - so outside of tourism-driven ones, it confirms the basic premise that it's the upscale malls near a major city center that lacks alternatives that's driving these consumption tombs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2018, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
4,109 posts, read 3,400,520 times
Reputation: 5633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pemgin View Post
High end luxury malls, where shoppers think nothing of spending thousands on a suit or watch, for example, will probably continue to do well. Your standard issue, middle class suburban malls will continue to fail.
Can't say I disagree one bit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2018, 10:58 AM
 
3,454 posts, read 1,978,113 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
You and me, queen. I've set foot in a mall twice in the last seven or eight years - once to pick up something I promised without realizing I had to go into the bowels of hell for it, and once to find the worst-located Amazon locker I've ever seen. (Into the absolute center depths, then down an elevator, then down a long blank corridor, in an alcove across from the security and management pit. Never again.)

Malls can become extinct for alla me. And I grew up in the trade, oddly enough.
About as much as I have.
Count me in on anti mall, too.

I can't walk well, use a cane and while they do have wheelchair to loan out, they are often out when we go.
The ONLY reason was to visit the main "anchor store" for Verizon here.

A few years ago they remodeled. They decided in infinite wisdom to put down MARBLE flooring, which has no give to it, and inside of 15 minutes my back, hip and knee hurt very much. Even solid concrete floors don't hurt quite as,quickly.

So, no I don't go to the area enclosed mall. And tgey lost Sears and Macy's as anchor stores. J C Penny isnt far behind.

We have an open sidewalk mall thst has Wal-Mart and Sam's club as anchors, along with a Dicks clothing and sporting goods ( which actually started here as a small one store operation many years ago).

I actually prefer to go tgere to the enclosed mall.

I'm NOT much of a shopper. And see no reason to go and spend a premium on goods just because the mall is a high rent district.

Nope, not me. And on those MARBLE floors, nope no way not even at Christmas.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2018, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,184 posts, read 10,125,866 times
Reputation: 18263
Neither a mall nor any other entity survives forever. Remember Polaroid?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top