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Old 05-01-2018, 04:21 PM
 
3,477 posts, read 1,988,641 times
Reputation: 7898

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Hmm lots of different ideas here. Things that make you go "hmmm"....

Do you know who Mr. GOODYEAR (the tire magnate ) ( if not him, another tycoon from last century) thought was the MOST important job holder in his company? The guy who swept the floor. He thought that guy was the MOST important because he kept the place clean. Would you really like to use unkempt public bathrooms? How about the dirty employees toilets at your job? So the guy who is the janitor "adds no value"?

The guy who cuts your grass asks for a raise and you don't think he "adds value"? Apparently NOT having to mow your own lawn is of "no value" to you. When ALL of the "landscapers" ( grass cutters) INCREASE their prices to do your lawn, will you then mow your own lawn? Or will you pay the increased fee to AVOID the inconvenience of doing it yourself? Therein is your "added value".

A national news story about Google employees...alk of whom were "adding value" to Google were NOT paid a LIVING wage enough to afford housing, and so were living in their cars in Google's parking lot. Only the national shaming Google got made Google decide they'd increase the wages of these employees. Whether they could still afford housing on the new wage increases was never followed up on. At least tgat issue want as promoted.

When the electric company raises my rates, to pay more to those shareholders some of you think are the end all to be all, have they "added additional value" to my life? It's still the same electricity.

Shareholders...hmm the ONLY ones who can AFFORD those stock shares are those who are wealthy enough to buy them...and Mr small business owners don't issue shares for others to buy and pay their employees a pittance only dictated by the minimum wage laws. If a regular Joe, struggling to pay to eat and live cannot afford those shares of stock in their compamy...if it has stocks publicly traded ( think those homeless Google employees) ...what the hell do they care about "about adding value" to their companies stock???
The only ones who Can afford the stocks are the wealthier people, who right now are only buying and selling things to each other to see who can get the most "value" for their belongings or play a contest to see who can pay the most for something ( think a house in Malibu or a Picasso painting or the latest custon used yatch)

I can tell you the owner of my business CANNOT do a single job in his business, he inherited it from daddy, but has required his kids to work in the business...during summer vacations....at higher wages than the regular employees who do the daily daily grind, and apparently to some of you here "don't add ANY value" to the business. I believe that is firmly called nepotism.

And Congress and the president is providing corporate nepotism by allowing corporations to enrich themselves while still skinflinting their employees. As someone said here...its the companies JOB to get the cheapest person to do any job...perhaps those of you who claim "no added value" are ALSO being SEVERELY UNDERPAID ....even in your $150k salary job...perhaps you are really worth a "value added" $200k or even $250k...but you happily accept the living wages of $150k as happily as a pig in a pile of crap in the sty. And you think you have it so good because you make more than the ******* who cleans the toilet you peed all over.

The people who do the grunge jobs you hoity toity people DON'T want to do, DO "add value"...that is in allowing YOU NOT to have to do those jobs, and chances are you make it harder for the grunge worker to do their job...because when you use that *clean* restroom and drop toilet paper or a paper towel on the floor, chances are you WON'T stoop to pick it up, because after all there "is someone paid" to do it for you.

I have always asked this question: when all the grunge workers are gone, or refuse to work for substandard wages...who...yes who will clean the wealthy's toilets? Because they sure won't. Especially if they won't mow their own damn lawn. No one has ever answered this question. I'm sure the Donald won't wipe his crap out of his toilet and hasn't in years.

No "value added"??? Apparently NOT having to do something YOU don't want to do is of NO "value" to you.

And when the lawn guy or toilet guy or Google employee can buy those high and MIGHTY stock shares, and participate in the economy more, then the economy will grow by leaps and bounds instead of stagnating.

I've contribute nothing to the economy beyond the mortgage and foid. No new car for me, I'll keep driving my 12 year old vehicle, no nothing bought in a store or online except food, because I've got to pay the living wages the electric company pays and charges me for the use of their product, for example. And my business owner, who gets a big tax cut aint sharing it with me.

It takes ALL KINDS of jobs to make the world go around. People who are high and MIGHTY forget that. Think of that the next time you pee in a public or company toilet.

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Old 05-01-2018, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,685 posts, read 9,443,087 times
Reputation: 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sen-r...?.tsrc=fauxdal

""There is still a lot of thinking on the right that if big corporations are happy, they're going to take the money they're saving and reinvest it in American workers," Rubio, R-Fla., told The Economist in a story release Monday. "In fact they bought back shares, a few gave out bonuses; there's no evidence whatsoever that the money's been massively poured back into the American worker."


Have to agree with that statement.

Corporations never bear the burden of a tax in the first place, so they never incur the benefit of a tax reduction.

Any statutory burden of a tax on corporations is allocated as follows:

X% is borne by customers in the form of prices higher than they otherwise would be
Y% is borne by employees in the form of total compensation (and hours worked) lower than they otherwise would be
Z% is borne by business owners (shareholders) in the form of profits lower than they otherwise would be

...where X+Y+Z=1.0 (that is, X%+Y%+Z%=100.0%)

When there is a statutory tax reduction,

X% of the tax reduction flows to customers (lower prices)
Y% of the tax reduction flows to employees (higher compensation & hours worked)
Z% of the tax reduction flows to owners/shareholders (higher profits).

... where X+Y+Z=1.0

Quite literally and arithmetically there is no place else for it to go.

Business taxes of all forms are not an efficient way to collect the tax revenue necessary to run the country. It would be far better to zero out business taxes altogether and just raise the required revenue by taxing business owners/shareholders directly.
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Old 05-01-2018, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Boston
5,097 posts, read 1,460,242 times
Reputation: 3735
how do you give a tax cut to people that don't pay taxes?
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Old 05-01-2018, 04:37 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,030,857 times
Reputation: 2071
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Hmm lots of different ideas here. Things that make you go "hmmm"....

Do you know who Mr. GOODYEAR (the tire magnate ) ( if not him, another tycoon from last century) thought was the MOST important job holder in his company? The guy who swept the floor. He thought that guy was the MOST important because he kept the place clean. Would you really like to use unkempt public bathrooms? How about the dirty employees toilets at your job? So the guy who is the janitor "adds no value"?

The guy who cuts your grass asks for a raise and you don't think he "adds value"? Apparently NOT having to mow your own lawn is of "no value" to you. When ALL of the "landscapers" ( grass cutters) INCREASE their prices to do your lawn, will you then mow your own lawn? Or will you pay the increased fee to AVOID the inconvenience of doing it yourself? Therein is your "added value".

A national news story about Google employees...alk of whom were "adding value" to Google were NOT paid a LIVING wage enough to afford housing, and so were living in their cars in Google's parking lot. Only the national shaming Google got made Google decide they'd increase the wages of these employees. Whether they could still afford housing on the new wage increases was never followed up on. At least tgat issue want as promoted.

When the electric company raises my rates, to pay more to those shareholders some of you think are the end all to be all, have they "added additional value" to my life? It's still the same electricity.

Shareholders...hmm the ONLY ones who can AFFORD those stock shares are those who are wealthy enough to buy them...and Mr small business owners don't issue shares for others to buy and pay their employees a pittance only dictated by the minimum wage laws. If a regular Joe, struggling to pay to eat and live cannot afford those shares of stock in their compamy...if it has stocks publicly traded ( think those homeless Google employees) ...what the hell do they care about "about adding value" to their companies stock???
The only ones who Can afford the stocks are the wealthier people, who right now are only buying and selling things to each other to see who can get the most "value" for their belongings or play a contest to see who can pay the most for something ( think a house in Malibu or a Picasso painting or the latest custon used yatch)

I can tell you the owner of my business CANNOT do a single job in his business, he inherited it from daddy, but has required his kids to work in the business...during summer vacations....at higher wages than the regular employees who do the daily daily grind, and apparently to some of you here "don't add ANY value" to the business. I believe that is firmly called nepotism.

And Congress and the president is providing corporate nepotism by allowing corporations to enrich themselves while still skinflinting their employees. As someone said here...its the companies JOB to get the cheapest person to do any job...perhaps those of you who claim "no added value" are ALSO being SEVERELY UNDERPAID ....even in your $150k salary job...perhaps you are really worth a "value added" $200k or even $250k...but you happily accept the living wages of $150k as happily as a pig in a pile of crap in the sty. And you think you have it so good because you make more than the ******* who cleans the toilet you peed all over.

The people who do the grunge jobs you hoity toity people DON'T want to do, DO "add value"...that is in allowing YOU NOT to have to do those jobs, and chances are you make it harder for the grunge worker to do their job...because when you use that *clean* restroom and drop toilet paper or a paper towel on the floor, chances are you WON'T stoop to pick it up, because after all there "is someone paid" to do it for you.

I have always asked this question: when all the grunge workers are gone, or refuse to work for substandard wages...who...yes who will clean the wealthy's toilets? Because they sure won't. Especially if they won't mow their own damn lawn. No one has ever answered this question. I'm sure the Donald won't wipe his crap out of his toilet and hasn't in years.

No "value added"??? Apparently NOT having to do something YOU don't want to do is of NO "value" to you.

And when the lawn guy or toilet guy or Google employee can buy those high and MIGHTY stock shares, and participate in the economy more, then the economy will grow by leaps and bounds instead of stagnating.

I've contribute nothing to the economy beyond the mortgage and foid. No new car for me, I'll keep driving my 12 year old vehicle, no nothing bought in a store or online except food, because I've got to pay the living wages the electric company pays and charges me for the use of their product, for example. And my business owner, who gets a big tax cut aint sharing it with me.

It takes ALL KINDS of jobs to make the world go around. People who are high and MIGHTY forget that. Think of that the next time you pee in a public or company toilet.

Finally somebody that gets it and understand what a value a person is! You know for a fact some rich as is paying some smutt 10 dollars a day to mow the grass or wipe his as.
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Old 05-01-2018, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,685 posts, read 9,443,087 times
Reputation: 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Trickle down has NEVER worked when tried.
Trickle-down has NEVER been tried. It is not an economic theory. Go to any research university in the nation and you will not see a course titled "Econ 157: Trickle-Down Economics." You will not find The Goldman Sachs Distinguished Service Professor of Trickle-Down Economics.

Why? Tickle-down is a pejorative straw-man invented by the hard-core progressive left, first used in a stand-up comedy routine by humorist Will Rogers in the 1930s. The unthinking left loves to rail against it, thinking they actually score points by "defeating" a straw-man. SMH.
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Old 05-01-2018, 04:39 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,030,857 times
Reputation: 2071
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Corporations never bear the burden of a tax in the first place, so they never incur the benefit of a tax reduction.

Any statutory burden of a tax on corporations is allocated as follows:

X% is borne by customers in the form of prices higher than they otherwise would be
Y% is borne by employees in the form of total compensation (and hours worked) lower than they otherwise would be
Z% is borne by business owners (shareholders) in the form of profits lower than they otherwise would be

...where X+Y+Z=1.0 (that is, X%+Y%+Z%=100.0%)

When there is a statutory tax reduction,

X% of the tax reduction flows to customers (lower prices)
Y% of the tax reduction flows to employees (higher compensation & hours worked)
Z% of the tax reduction flows to owners/shareholders (higher profits).

... where X+Y+Z=1.0

Quite literally and arithmetically there is no place else for it to go.

Business taxes of all forms are not an efficient way to collect the tax revenue necessary to run the country. It would be far better to zero out business taxes altogether and just raise the required revenue by taxing business owners/shareholders directly.

Yes, but you know for a fact they will find a way to make US pay for those taxes, while they find loopholes to get out from hording their profits in the overseas bank.
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Old 05-01-2018, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,685 posts, read 9,443,087 times
Reputation: 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
Yes, but you know for a fact they will find a way to make US pay for those taxes, while they find loopholes to get out from hording their profits in the overseas bank.
The incidence of the tax on each of customers (the "us" you speak of) and employees is a function of the price-elasticity of supply and price-elasticity of demand, and cross-elasticities of substitutes and complements. Roughly, these correspond to the slopes of the supply and demand curves many of us learned about in Econ 101. The portion that isn't borne by customers and employees flows through to business owners/shareholders.

In the real world, it would be very unusual to find a market segment where 100% of a tax flowed through to end customers. It is usually a combination of customers, employees, and shareholders.

****

It would be far better to completely eliminate all corporate taxation in the first place. That way, there are no loopholes to worry about, and corporations don't need to hire armies of corporate tax accountants and tax lawyers. Ditto for the IRS.

To make up for that lost tax revenue (about $200 Billion to $350 Billion or so, depending on the year) we should just raise personal income taxes. Make them as progressive as you like.
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:19 PM
 
2,248 posts, read 1,391,923 times
Reputation: 4903
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
The incidence of the tax on each of customers (the "us" you speak of) and employees is a function of the price-elasticity of supply and price-elasticity of demand, and cross-elasticities of substitutes and complements. Roughly, these correspond to the slopes of the supply and demand curves many of us learned about in Econ 101. The portion that isn't borne by customers and employees flows through to business owners/shareholders.

In the real world, it would be very unusual to find a market segment where 100% of a tax flowed through to end customers. It is usually a combination of customers, employees, and shareholders.

****

It would be far better to completely eliminate all corporate taxation in the first place. That way, there are no loopholes to worry about, and corporations don't need to hire armies of corporate tax accountants and tax lawyers. Ditto for the IRS.

To make up for that lost tax revenue (about $200 Billion to $350 Billion or so, depending on the year) we should just raise personal income taxes. Make them as progressive as you like.
https://www.ctj.org/fact-sheet-why-w...te-income-tax/

For the 87th time. There’s no chance removing the corporate income chance will even be legitimately discussed.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 05-01-2018 at 05:27 PM..
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
2,200 posts, read 806,780 times
Reputation: 4387
Corporations aren't investing tax cuts in jobs

Wow. I bet nobody saw that coming.
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:35 PM
 
2,248 posts, read 1,391,923 times
Reputation: 4903
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Hmm lots of different ideas here. Things that make you go "hmmm"....

Do you know who Mr. GOODYEAR (the tire magnate ) ( if not him, another tycoon from last century) thought was the MOST important job holder in his company? The guy who swept the floor. He thought that guy was the MOST important because he kept the place clean. Would you really like to use unkempt public bathrooms? How about the dirty employees toilets at your job? So the guy who is the janitor "adds no value"?

The guy who cuts your grass asks for a raise and you don't think he "adds value"? Apparently NOT having to mow your own lawn is of "no value" to you. When ALL of the "landscapers" ( grass cutters) INCREASE their prices to do your lawn, will you then mow your own lawn? Or will you pay the increased fee to AVOID the inconvenience of doing it yourself? Therein is your "added value".

A national news story about Google employees...alk of whom were "adding value" to Google were NOT paid a LIVING wage enough to afford housing, and so were living in their cars in Google's parking lot. Only the national shaming Google got made Google decide they'd increase the wages of these employees. Whether they could still afford housing on the new wage increases was never followed up on. At least tgat issue want as promoted.

When the electric company raises my rates, to pay more to those shareholders some of you think are the end all to be all, have they "added additional value" to my life? It's still the same electricity.

Shareholders...hmm the ONLY ones who can AFFORD those stock shares are those who are wealthy enough to buy them...and Mr small business owners don't issue shares for others to buy and pay their employees a pittance only dictated by the minimum wage laws. If a regular Joe, struggling to pay to eat and live cannot afford those shares of stock in their compamy...if it has stocks publicly traded ( think those homeless Google employees) ...what the hell do they care about "about adding value" to their companies stock???
The only ones who Can afford the stocks are the wealthier people, who right now are only buying and selling things to each other to see who can get the most "value" for their belongings or play a contest to see who can pay the most for something ( think a house in Malibu or a Picasso painting or the latest custon used yatch)

I can tell you the owner of my business CANNOT do a single job in his business, he inherited it from daddy, but has required his kids to work in the business...during summer vacations....at higher wages than the regular employees who do the daily daily grind, and apparently to some of you here "don't add ANY value" to the business. I believe that is firmly called nepotism.

And Congress and the president is providing corporate nepotism by allowing corporations to enrich themselves while still skinflinting their employees. As someone said here...its the companies JOB to get the cheapest person to do any job...perhaps those of you who claim "no added value" are ALSO being SEVERELY UNDERPAID ....even in your $150k salary job...perhaps you are really worth a "value added" $200k or even $250k...but you happily accept the living wages of $150k as happily as a pig in a pile of crap in the sty. And you think you have it so good because you make more than the ******* who cleans the toilet you peed all over.

The people who do the grunge jobs you hoity toity people DON'T want to do, DO "add value"...that is in allowing YOU NOT to have to do those jobs, and chances are you make it harder for the grunge worker to do their job...because when you use that *clean* restroom and drop toilet paper or a paper towel on the floor, chances are you WON'T stoop to pick it up, because after all there "is someone paid" to do it for you.

I have always asked this question: when all the grunge workers are gone, or refuse to work for substandard wages...who...yes who will clean the wealthy's toilets? Because they sure won't. Especially if they won't mow their own damn lawn. No one has ever answered this question. I'm sure the Donald won't wipe his crap out of his toilet and hasn't in years.

No "value added"??? Apparently NOT having to do something YOU don't want to do is of NO "value" to you.

And when the lawn guy or toilet guy or Google employee can buy those high and MIGHTY stock shares, and participate in the economy more, then the economy will grow by leaps and bounds instead of stagnating.

I've contribute nothing to the economy beyond the mortgage and foid. No new car for me, I'll keep driving my 12 year old vehicle, no nothing bought in a store or online except food, because I've got to pay the living wages the electric company pays and charges me for the use of their product, for example. And my business owner, who gets a big tax cut aint sharing it with me.

It takes ALL KINDS of jobs to make the world go around. People who are high and MIGHTY forget that. Think of that the next time you pee in a public or company toilet.

That’s a lot of assumptions about people being bad people because they make more money.

I respect ALL labor. Period. You seem to confuse economic value with a person’s value. Your chip is too big to see the difference.

Also, the person you’re reaching for is Henry Ford from the Ford Motor company...not Mr. Goodyear. And you don’t even have the story right of what he said about the floor sweeper or the reason he made the changes to worker pay. If you’re going to try to make a point based off of an American legend and icon at least have his message somewhat accurate and his motive to attract and retain exceptionally talented and hard working people who created superior value in the same roles as his competitors. In other words, the floor sweeper would go above and beyond (picking the tools up instead of sweeping around them) in his role and make up for more than the five dollars per day of pay.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 05-01-2018 at 07:27 PM..
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