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Old 05-08-2018, 06:39 AM
 
Location: USA
6,171 posts, read 4,950,686 times
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One my friends is an HR officer for the local hospital network. The hospital network had a job posting for a web developer, they received 250 applicants. We have far too many people chasing too few jobs, and even fewer jobs that pay a livable wage. A basic income is going to be needed at some point, or the country will turn into California with tent cities.
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Old 05-08-2018, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Ohio
4,080 posts, read 1,466,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
If you have not figured it out, now is better than never. Low skilled jobs have been vanishing. The declines have been especially rapid in agriculture, ranching, manufacturing and retailing. There is an excess of people without college or any important skills, training or experience. Higher skilled jobs are in demand and for a great many occupations predicted manpower needs will greatly out pace people who have the necessary skills. Get and education or get skills that are in demand!!! You don't have to work in one of the STEM fields. There are lots and lots of opportunities now and projected for the future.
That's a nice tidy fantasy and I hear it all the time, but here is the harsh reality. Human beings are born with a specific intelligence and aptitude; a certain innate capability for logical thinking, communication, and visualization.

Maybe 1/3 have the ability to "get an education or get skills that are in demand", and be successful in that effort.

Maybe the middle 1/3 can "get an education or get skills that are in demand" with a huge amount of effort; but the reality is that they will be directly competing with the 1/3 that were born to be better suited to those occupations.

The remaining 1/3 are not born with the skill sets and aptitudes that you ascribe to everyone. No amount of training or "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" effort will help them to succeed. Where are the jobs for them in this brave new world?
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Old 05-08-2018, 06:57 AM
 
5,600 posts, read 4,206,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker View Post
One my friends is an HR officer for the local hospital network. The hospital network had a job posting for a web developer, they received 250 applicants. We have far too many people chasing too few jobs, and even fewer jobs that pay a livable wage. A basic income is going to be needed at some point, or the country will turn into California with tent cities.
One anecdote does not make a trend. According to the BLS, unemployment for programmers has been well under 3% for many years. Large numbers of people have been entering the field so the future might not remain rosy.


I have been to several major "tent" cities in California. Not too surprising; most inhabitants are drug abusers and/or mentally ill. Sadly, nationwide most of the mental health treatment centers were closed several decades ago. There was a semi-valid excuse that outpatient therapy would work better. Unfortunately, the outpatient centers were never close to meeting the need for the numbers of people involved nor did patients follow up. It is sad to see millions of mentally ill people walking the streets and trying to cope without assistance. A great many are vets with PTSD.
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Old 05-08-2018, 07:09 AM
 
857 posts, read 371,015 times
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He failed to predict a dominating middle class though.

In fact, the blue collar working class without any belongings (proletariat) is tiny in modern capitalist society. Then, the class struggle between proletariat and capitalist and ultimate violent revolution is unlikely in a highly developed capitalist society. Capital ownership is different from 19th century too, there are stock markets and just about anyone can own stocks. State owned enterprises, planned economy have been proven as failures. Need based welfare entitlements are proven bad ...

St Marx wasn't an economist, his friend Friedrich Engels was, with his famous book "Das Kaptal"
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Old 05-08-2018, 07:24 AM
 
5,600 posts, read 4,206,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
That's a nice tidy fantasy and I hear it all the time, but here is the harsh reality. Human beings are born with a specific intelligence and aptitude; a certain innate capability for logical thinking, communication, and visualization.

Maybe 1/3 have the ability to "get an education or get skills that are in demand", and be successful in that effort.

Maybe the middle 1/3 can "get an education or get skills that are in demand" with a huge amount of effort; but the reality is that they will be directly competing with the 1/3 that were born to be better suited to those occupations.

The remaining 1/3 are not born with the skill sets and aptitudes that you ascribe to everyone. No amount of training or "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" effort will help them to succeed. Where are the jobs for them in this brave new world?
This is total BS. Everyone can improve their knowledge, skills and employability with work, education and/or training. Plenty of average and well below average people graduate from college and have successful careers. Some even make it to become Presidents or CEOs of major companies.


The idea of innate IQ and mental capability is long DEAD. Sure there are some few with serious mental issues, but for the vast majority, IQ can be developed. It is not innate and fixed as was once believed. In any case IQ is not of prime importance as an indicator of success in life or in a career. Some people can even learn that a defeatist attitude can hold them back more than anything else.


Ever notice how many people seem to come to this forum to complain, vent, and invent conspiracies and scapegoats? It is just pathetic and it does not need to be that way.
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Old 05-08-2018, 07:32 AM
 
201 posts, read 125,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
This is total BS. Everyone can improve their knowledge, skills and employability with work, education and/or training. Plenty of average and well below average people graduate from college and have successful careers. Some even make it to become Presidents or CEOs of major companies.


The idea of innate IQ and mental capability is long DEAD. Sure there are some few with serious mental issues, but for the vast majority, IQ can be developed. It is not innate and fixed as was once believed. In any case IQ is not of prime importance as an indicator of success in life or in a career. Some people can even learn that a defeatist attitude can hold them back more than anything else.


Ever notice how many people seem to come to this forum to complain, vent, and invent conspiracies and scapegoats? It is just pathetic and it does not need to be that way.
Yes people can keep improving and updating their skills...unfortunately, with the passing of time they then fight debt and age factors! Both of which prevent them from competing and or moving up.
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Old 05-08-2018, 07:33 AM
 
8,504 posts, read 2,389,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
This is total BS. Everyone can improve their knowledge, skills and employability with work, education and/or training. Plenty of average and well below average people graduate from college and have successful careers. Some even make it to become Presidents or CEOs of major companies.

The idea of innate IQ and mental capability is long DEAD. Sure there are some few with serious mental issues, but for the vast majority, IQ can be developed. It is not innate and fixed as was once believed. In any case IQ is not of prime importance as an indicator of success in life or in a career. Some people can even learn that a defeatist attitude can hold them back more than anything else.
Well, yes and no.

IQ can be developed and improved over generations with a specific will and modes of education and upbringing to do so. Japan did it with specific policies and raised theirs beyond any former guesses as to what was possible. But this entailed stuff that Americans rebel against - like direction on how to treat your infants, etc....

Since the USA wants "freedom" for parents to do whatever they want, the reality is that a vast quantity of people are NOT having their IQ's raised.

I'm with you that I'd like it to be done. But it isn't being done to the extent needed...here. I mean - if it was being done, would people in WV be voting for a felon that murdered a bunch of them?

On the other hand, the simple answer as to what people are going to do is SERVICES. This is already largely underway. When I go get a massage a "mom" who can set her own schedule makes over $50 an hour (after she pays for the room, etc.).

In terms of employment, I doubt graduating in the bottom 10% of a class is going to get you many jobs at top companies...
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Old 05-08-2018, 07:58 AM
 
5,600 posts, read 4,206,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Well, yes and no.

IQ can be developed and improved over generations with a specific will and modes of education and upbringing to do so. Japan did it .......

In terms of employment, I doubt graduating in the bottom 10% of a class is going to get you many jobs at top companies...

I am not writing about something that is the responsibility of government. Improving IQ is an individual endeavor that comes from hard work, effort, and "exercise" of one's faculties. The government is not responsible for forcing people to apply themselves in life.


A medical student who graduates in the bottom 10% is still called doctor. There are all sorts of reasons that people have difficulty in school including reasons that have nothing to do with IQ or the ability to learn. Many people who barely make it through due very well in their chosen careers.


Success does not necessarily mean a formal education. Many people do very well learning skills or a trade. A good plumber can make way more money than a first rate nerdy computer programmer.
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Old 05-08-2018, 08:10 AM
 
372 posts, read 244,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post

So when this comes true in a 100 percent factory driven by robots, what going to happen to the people who need to work? ( not everybody cut out to work in the tech industry) Business need people not machines?
Only 8.8 percent of total U.S. employment is in a factory job. The world is always going to need nurses, landscapers, restaurant workers, electricians, etc.
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Old 05-08-2018, 08:18 AM
 
5,600 posts, read 4,206,197 times
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Originally Posted by sjinnj View Post
Only 8.8 percent of total U.S. employment is in a factory job. The world is always going to need nurses, landscapers, restaurant workers, electricians, etc.
Exactly. Lots of people seem to complain and want to see us return to the good old days when factory work was more common. Lots of people seem to also forget that work was not enjoyable, but shear boring drudgery. Rather than complain about robotics and automation replacing a lot of those jobs, it is time to realize that today's jobs can be much better. There is an obvious downside. There are more than enough workers with minimal skills. Low skilled jobs typically pay poorly. It is more important than ever to get skills that are in demand. There are no end in the choices.
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