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Old 05-09-2018, 09:28 AM
 
377 posts, read 101,321 times
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i dont think automation is really a problem we are about to enter a century of steep population decline.
here in the us seems like we are drowning in people but the fact is humanity growth will flat in the next couple of decades and decline sharply after 2050.
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Old 05-09-2018, 09:49 AM
 
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I am not a Marx scholar and I read just a few of his works and a lot of summaries. But I think if you consider his impact as an economist and a commentator only, it is not really that significant. Yes, he was a fierce critic of 19th century capitalism. This was a heartless system with 12 hour factory work days, substance wages, child labor, horrible environmental damage and neglect, none or very limited education, health care and social services available to anyone who was not rich. Criticizing this system is not hard and he was not the only one who saw its obvious problems. But even this article in this thread says that: "Most of Marx’s work was focused on critiquing capitalism, and he wrote relatively little about exactly what it would take for communism to become reality, or how it would function."


So basically he was a fierce critic of his contemporary system while not offering clear ideas to the contrary? I think as a stand alone figure he is not significant.


I think one significant idea that he did have was the concept of the "Dictatorship of Proletariat". That was the idea that "proletariat" essentially take over the government and crash all the resistance in a process of transitioning to communism:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/dic...he-proletariat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictat...he_proletariat


Now this was gift to all the revolutionaries calling themselves Marxist who set up various dictatorial societies. They could always quote Marx and say that they have set up "Dictatorships of the Proletariat" in a process of transitioning to communism. As prescribed by their favorite teacher. Of course no one really could define what communism was but the Dictatorship part seemed to always work well. I believe Karl Marx is indirectly responsible for murdering millions.
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Old 05-09-2018, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,729 posts, read 9,479,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
We put regulations on how much automation is allowed. At least that what I'd do if I were Supreme Ruler Of All Things ... It would pretty much be my goal to make sure we didn't automate ourselves out of existence. And it should be the goal of whoever is running the show.
Sort of like Pol Pot did. Gee, that worked out well for Kampuchea.
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Old 05-09-2018, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,152 posts, read 9,230,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Prosperous: "successful in material terms; flourishing financially". That sure sounds like it has to do with money. Perhaps you meant to say something else.
No. I meant without money madness - the belief that money has intrinsic value independent of the marketplace.

For example, poverty is not the "lack" of money. If that were true, simply credit everyone with a billion billion quatloos. Now, everyone is equally wealthy and do not "need" money. So who will bother to work, transport and trade labor and property for money they don't "need"? Even the starving children are phenomenally wealthy.

Outside of money madness, true prosperity is the prodigious production, equitable trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services.

Money madness relies on manufactured scarcity and demand for "valuable" money tokens, and enriches those are the masters of the madness, not the laborers and producers.
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Old 05-09-2018, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
4,695 posts, read 1,171,593 times
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Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
those that don't invest in themselves shouldn't expect others to invest in them either.
Bingo.

The move to STEMM (Science, Tech, Engineering, Medical, Math) jobs has been going on for decades now. This shouldn't be a surprise for anyone in declining businesses.

The more AI, robots, and automation means more people to manage them, upgrade them, protect them from cyber attacks, etc.

This ship is sailing.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
We put regulations on how much automation is allowed.
That's not how you stay a world superpower and rich country.
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Old 05-09-2018, 04:52 PM
 
17,411 posts, read 14,892,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Bingo.

The move to STEMM (Science, Tech, Engineering, Medical, Math) jobs has been going on for decades now. This shouldn't be a surprise for anyone in declining businesses.

The more AI, robots, and automation means more people to manage them, upgrade them, protect them from cyber attacks, etc.

This ship is sailing.






That's not how you stay a world superpower and rich country.
So whT happens to the people who donít have an aptitude for science or math? You think anyone who wants to can be good at those fields, and it is unfair to imply those who do not have strong right brain skills are simply not interested in investing in themselves.
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:26 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,037,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
So whT happens to the people who donít have an aptitude for science or math? You think anyone who wants to can be good at those fields, and it is unfair to imply those who do not have strong right brain skills are simply not interested in investing in themselves.

some folks still think that school is for everyone.. Yes it is available for everyone, with the right funds, Smartness, and people connections. Its not a one shoe fits all world.
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Old 05-09-2018, 06:21 PM
 
5,615 posts, read 4,224,242 times
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There we go----an actual graph showing the probability that jobs will be replaced by automation. Of course there is no time frame given. Nor is there any data to support this. I bet this is nothing more than some Aholes guess. Since that seems to be the case, then I can just as easily express my opinion.


Loan officer - most of the process is already computerized.
Receptionist - I have no guess, except existing technology could already suffice and there are still many employed.
Retail salesperson - going, going, gone for many types of retail.
Taxi drivers - we will see. Clearly the technology is a long, long way short of what is needed.
Security guards - no way. We are decades if not centuries from Robocop.
Cooks/fast food - much is already automated with some room for more.
Bartenders - no way. The technology of mixing and dispensing drinks is simple. Bartenders and barmaids will live on.
Personal financial advisers - No way. Fidelity and others already offer online automated advising but more is needed.


This is a very small and somewhat strange list. What about the hundreds of other existing occupations and the new ones being created virtually daily?
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Old 05-09-2018, 06:55 PM
 
17,411 posts, read 14,892,507 times
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Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
some folks still think that school is for everyone.. Yes it is available for everyone, with the right funds, Smartness, and people connections. Its not a one shoe fits all world.
It isnít just smart itís right brain smart specifically. Iím smart, I graduated OT school Magna *** Laude. But before I transferred to the OT program, I struggled with the Algebra pre-req, withdrawing from my first try Because I had a teacher who could not explain all the way down to my level, LOL. I had to hire a tutor for statistics, and withdrew from introduction to physics before I could fail it. I was a lost puppy in that class. I donít even know how to sort photos on my iPhone and Iíve had it for three years.

Assigned me an essay or a book report or a research paper, however and I could do that no problem. I would not have been able to be an engineer just by saying I want to, Iíd have failed miserably.

This is going to widen the gap in gender income disparity, as many women are stronger with left-brain skills while more men are born with strengths in the math and sciences.

But I agree someone with a below average IQ would struggle with these fields, and older people not raised with tech would struggle as well. It would also widen the gap between rich and poor, since many poor people do not even have access to computers outside a library and so are at a competitive disadvantage by the time they get to college level in terms of experience and knowledge of tech.
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
3,778 posts, read 1,604,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
https://qz.com/1269525/capitalism-is...arx-predicted/



So when this comes true in a 100 percent factory driven by robots, what going to happen to the people who need to work? ( not everybody cut out to work in the tech industry) Business need people not machines?
The closest that we can come to an answer here is to look at the reaction by industry and the rich in the nineteen thirties. It is the closest that we have come to what's in store for us when everything is mechanized for a different reason.
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