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Old 05-13-2018, 12:08 PM
 
360 posts, read 432,928 times
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"The public employees aren't the problem, it's the politicians and companies that feed themselves off taxpayer funds."


I agree totally. It's the government's management positions that allow private companies to rip us off. You can't blame an individual for pursuing his own interests. Whether he works for the government or does work for the government. I do however believe everything can be privatized with responsible management.
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Old 05-13-2018, 12:24 PM
 
2,244 posts, read 1,390,219 times
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I think it’s unfair to blame the workers with the pension. Many of them worked hard for decades. Some even putting their lives on the line.

The blame goes to immoral politicians and “leaders” that make promises they don’t have accountability for. They pass on liabilities/cost that cannot be satisfied to future generations who had no say in those politicians being elected. It’s why Thomas Jefferson specifically pointed this out as unacceptable behavior.

Simply taking away people’s pension now is wrong. They depend on it and they would have acted differently earlier in life if they knew they wouldn’t get this money.

And this is coming from someone who will never see a pension. I just think of all the years I will work in life and someone in my exact same position just decades ago would have been earning a private pension plan simultaneously. Then I have to hear older generations say “kids today” are lazy. It always slaps me on the knee.
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Old 05-13-2018, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Virginia
7,893 posts, read 12,148,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvap View Post
All public employees erode what makes the US great, which is free market capitalism. Having a large percentage of the countries labor not have to worry about saving a penny because they are guaranteed 75% of their best three padded years along with health coverage for life, makes it impossible for a free market to put a price on anything. And for those who complain about insurance CEO's getting huge retirements, the only reason they do is because the government forces people to buy their product, and for public employees, they are buying that product with taxpayer dollars which we all are forced to pay. This festering problem which started in the Johnson administration, will be the downfall of the US unless it stops soon.
How can you say this about “all public employees”? These blanket statements are ridiculous.

I am a teacher with the public schools. Our state retirement (VRS) provides 50% of our highest three years’ average. If I was eligible to retire today my monthly healthcare premium cost would be $520.
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Old 05-13-2018, 01:04 PM
 
12,657 posts, read 12,085,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UntilTheNDofTimE View Post
However, federal government employees are paid way more. I know so many associate level CA state worker that left for the Feds to see 50% raises doing the same level of work. You get a TSP plan with a healthy match up to 5%. Im not sure how much federal government employees pay into the pension, if they do at all, and they are not required to pay into social security either which I would find to be a giant plus.
They must have been getting paid absurdly low to get a 50% jump in pay for moving to a federal position, that is like jumping from a GS7 to a GS13, or they relocated to a higher COL area and got a larger salary plus the COL addition for being in the higher COL area.

TSP is a 5% match, not out of sync with the private sector. Federal employees hired after 1984 (which would be most of them) pay 0.8% (if I recall correctly) towards their pension, this was increased to 3% or so for those hired after 2013. Employees hired after 1984 also pay SS jsut as everyone esle does and receive such SS benefits the same as everyone else (whereas those hired before 1984 did not pay into SS nor did they benefit from it).
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Old 05-13-2018, 01:09 PM
 
12,657 posts, read 12,085,149 times
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Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
There is a county employee from the department of agriculture that comes to our workplace everyday. What does he do? Nothing. He spends his time surfing on his phone or talks sports to anyone who would listen. Nice use of taxpayer money, huh? And there is my cousin who works for the state. She clocks in eight hours a day but works for two hours.

How do these people live with themselves? I suppose that's the benefit of having a taxpayer supported job. As long as there are businesses, homeowners, property owners, and working citizens to tax, government clock punchers are golden.

If my company can't sell our services or products, we would be out of a job so fast.
That is a management problem then, not a problem of the government. If an employee is accomplishing his job by sitting around all day, either he does not have enough work to do, management is not assigning him work, or his position needs reevaluated and possibly changed to align with current needs.

As someone who works in the private sector for many years, I can assure you there are plenty of these types in the private sector, this is not an issue only the gov has. However at the end of the day, it is management's responsibility to resolve these issues, an employee cannot just "make up work to do" especially a government employee who is restricted by a series of rules and regulations more so than in the private sector.
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Old 05-13-2018, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,016 posts, read 8,085,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
https://www.calstrs.com/retirement-benefits

I am just reading California's generous pensions system for Teachers. When people in the private sector struggle so much and have zero security in retirement why is this type of golden parachute offered to government employees in a time when pension funds are self destructing? Now, my guess is that they will raise taxes which people in the private sector will pay so that these government employees can continue to get their golden parachutes.

Heck, the CA teachers pension is even inflation protected... private people are struggling with keeping up with inflation with ultra low interest rates on their savings and an unstable stock market going forward yet all these protections are free to government employees in retirement.

It's a bit too late for me but probably I should've got a government job 10 years ago, salaries in the private sector have declined and now the private sector does not pay much more than the government sector.
SO I get PERA and a 457b and a 401a...I'm going to burn in hell! hahah
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Old 05-13-2018, 04:30 PM
 
9,276 posts, read 7,300,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
it's not the same thing, SS pays very little.. government pensions pay a huge percentage of your salary for life hence it's a golden parachute. Why does it matter, because the rest of us pay for the privilege of these people.
My SS is estimated at $2700 a month. Plus, my 401k, IRA, and investments. I'm not going to complain about who's pension.
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
4,592 posts, read 1,149,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvap View Post
All public employees erode what makes the US great, which is free market capitalism.
Public employees? No. Politicians? Yes.

Public employees are simply signing on the dotted line and doing the job they applied for with the benefits outlined in the contract.

Politicians, unions, bureaucrats, special interest groups, liberal constituents, and lobbyists are the ones legislating or supporting anti-free market policies.

Do you really believe a person who serves in the military has eroded America?
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Connecticut
3,537 posts, read 2,695,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UntilTheNDofTimE View Post
Mystical......I can't quote your last post but I wanted to point out what you just said about pension contributions. Yes the cost is very high but federal governmemt employees are not that much worse off than CA state/public employees. As noted above I was a CA state worker of five years.

On my paystub I would pay $600 ish a month to the pension and my employer paid about $1400. However this $1400 just goes to the pension general fund or wherever it goes. In CA, as a state worker, if you are non safety you get 2% at 55 of your highest 3 years average if you were hired prior to 2011. Now new state employees are subject to 2% at 62 which is like the federal government. So we can see CA pension is double.

However, federal government employees are paid way more. I know so many associate level CA state worker that left for the Feds to see 50% raises doing the same level of work. You get a TSP plan with a healthy match up to 5%. Im not sure how much federal government employees pay into the pension, if they do at all, and they are not required to pay into social security either which I would find to be a giant plus.

Just my .02 on CA state/city vs Feds. It would be interested to run a salary base model for 30 years and compare the two.



Federal Govt employees pay into Social Security and also pay Medicare tax. The Fed Govt also matches up to 5% of salary to the TSP which is another word for 401k savings plan. I'm not sure about health insurance benefits, but I do know there is a lot of talk nowadays about switching retired Postal employees to Medicare.


In the past Fed Govt employees did not pay into Social Security, but the rules were changed around 1984.


You can read about it here


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...irement_System
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Connecticut
3,537 posts, read 2,695,473 times
Reputation: 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
There is a county employee from the department of agriculture that comes to our workplace everyday. What does he do? Nothing. He spends his time surfing on his phone or talks sports to anyone who would listen. Nice use of taxpayer money, huh? And there is my cousin who works for the state. She clocks in eight hours a day but works for two hours.

How do these people live with themselves? I suppose that's the benefit of having a taxpayer supported job. As long as there are businesses, homeowners, property owners, and working citizens to tax, government clock punchers are golden.

If my company can't sell our services or products, we would be out of a job so fast.

What makes you think there isn't slackers in the private sector ? I;ve worked with plenty of them.
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