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Old 05-16-2018, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Sector 001
7,129 posts, read 5,947,609 times
Reputation: 8047

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
There is a better way than the United States does it.

Most notably, the U.S. needs to socialize its health care and its education system similar to the way it has socialized utilities like water. The other Western Democracies already do this and the successful Asian countries also do it.

It's not that it's free, you still have to pay when you use more of a utility, but it's not outrageous gouging like colleges and hospitals do.

I won't argue with that. Health care should be single payer/nationalized. I disagree college should be free however unless it's perhaps an online school with much lower prices...with all the worlds knowledge on the internet I fail to see the need to ram ten of thousands of dollars per student of debt onto the taxpayers. Plus the fields a lot of students choose... Generic fields like graphic design, have little practical use.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,395,295 times
Reputation: 8783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
They do it under the umbrella of Pax Americana, where the U.S maintained a watchful eye on aggression in those regions. They wouldn’t be able to live so well and skrimp on military if the barbarions were allowed at the gates. It’s a price America pays for the dollar system. Being the policeman.
Oh please.

Policeman against whom? The USSR is dead and gone. LONG gone! And it was never the big bad bear we thought it was. It was mostly all in our head. The USSR never had the logistical or financial ability to threaten western Europe although it crowed like it did.

To the extent there are problems in the middle east - they are largely the after-effects of European colonialism and then Cold War gamesmanship, not to mention creation of Israel.

So if you want to blame that stuff, look in the mirror.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,395,295 times
Reputation: 8783
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
I won't argue with that. Health care should be single payer/nationalized. I disagree college should be free however unless it's perhaps an online school with much lower prices...with all the worlds knowledge on the internet I fail to see the need to ram ten of thousands of dollars per student of debt onto the taxpayers. Plus the fields a lot of students choose... Generic fields like graphic design, have little practical use.
It should be tuition free, at a very minimum there should be a tuition free option, ie: starting at community college & then a branch state university that you get accepted to. We should not be charging for that. Decent countries don't.

The students still need to pay for the hotel & other "extra" aspects of college, however, that are so popular in the U.S. The living costs, books, etc.... If you visit European universities it's amazing how austere they are. There are classrooms, labs, libraries, etc... and that's it. The academic buildings are nice but the overall campuses are small. The living arrangements are quite plain. They're schools, not resorts.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:32 PM
 
3,267 posts, read 1,720,094 times
Reputation: 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Thatís not true. The reason the rich Americans and rich people of the countries you mentioned are attracted to invest in America is because of the economic system set up. Destroy that to the point where the rich Americans want to leave, and Iím not so sure the rich foreigners will continue to poor money in.
And which country do you think those rich Americans would go?
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:36 PM
 
5,221 posts, read 2,377,031 times
Reputation: 5111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegabern View Post
My point was that most of the extractors, harvesters, etc are taking advantage of sweetheart deals with the government. They're not the owners of the goods but they're reaping the rewards. Just look at the Bundys. They're using public land for free to become millionaires.


I understand what you're trying to say but mining, ranching, timber does not apply.
Thereís no way that you could have read the post that I was responding to, and actually believe that your replyís to me make any sense.

And yes, what I said absolutely applies with mining, ranching, and timber - those that control the assets and direct the labor will make more than those providing the labor.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
4,024 posts, read 1,471,806 times
Reputation: 5418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yobut View Post
So if its so easy why arent you doing it?
I have done it. I was doubling my investment in the stock market every 12 to 18 months. It was easy. Unfortunately I wasn't investing enough, because it's kind of hard to get enough money to invest while I was working with a disability at a crappy job while paying $1,500 a month rent. Now if I had a lot of money handed to me on a silver platter by my rich parents, I'd be doing pretty good.

Which is why the 1% wants the income divide to be as big as possible, and they will never agree to free higher education for everyone. Because they don't want an educated workforce. That would be competition to them. More people trying to grab a slice of the pie. They want a lot of uneducated peasants, to work for them and pay them rent, and make them money. They want all the wealth for themselves. Which is what capitalism is all about. Keeping the 99% down and the 1% up.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:30 PM
 
5,221 posts, read 2,377,031 times
Reputation: 5111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
I have done it. I was doubling my investment in the stock market every 12 to 18 months. It was easy. Unfortunately I wasn't investing enough, because it's kind of hard to get enough money to invest while I was working with a disability at a crappy job while paying $1,500 a month rent. Now if I had a lot of money handed to me on a silver platter by my rich parents, I'd be doing pretty good.

Which is why the 1% wants the income divide to be as big as possible, and they will never agree to free higher education for everyone. Because they don't want an educated workforce. That would be competition to them. More people trying to grab a slice of the pie. They want a lot of uneducated peasants, to work for them and pay them rent, and make them money. They want all the wealth for themselves. Which is what capitalism is all about. Keeping the 99% down and the 1% up.
If you could do that, youíd have investors beating down your door to give you money. Your own lack of capital would in no way be a barrier to your success.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:52 AM
 
8,519 posts, read 2,389,571 times
Reputation: 8127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yobut View Post
So if its so easy why arent you doing it?
1. You usually need either connections or a large initial stake to get a trading seat (even on lesser stock exchanges).

2. As easy as it may be for relatively high IQ people or Con men, it's not easy for those who don't have the natural "skill" of knowing mob mentality or who can't or won't sell people things they don't want or need.

3. Many people actually want to do things which make them feel that they are helping other people or the world in general. That can be tougher when you are "master of the universe" - skimming crumbs off the hard work of others.

I would gladly work in "honest" financial dealings..coaching people on investing, etc - in fact, even at my advanced age I was thinking of getting my basic license to do so. I don't need the money but feel that it would be rewarding.

Quickie story of some Masters of the Universe. Some good friends and neighbors of mine when I was in elementary school became VERY rich. These were guys who went to the same grade school school bus as I did....one, especially, was a real nerd (we didn't taunt nerds in those days)....

So, one guy inherited a few million from his parents who died young (they started one of the first big appliance chains)...the other (nerd) became a math genius (PHD, etc.) at MIT.

The two got together in the late 80's and the nerd worked out the formula for trading - next thing you know, they are actually trading 1 to 2% of the NYSE volume daily! Then they worked out "quant" formulas as well as the first real pricing math for those "weapons of mass destruction" that brought down the economy in 2007 (note - they weren't part of that mess - they sold to a Paris bank for hundreds of millions in the late 1990's)....

Anyway, start out with a couple million - live in an area which is VERY affluent with good schools and the ability of parents to send their kids to MIT and the like.....and you too can become a trader of some sort.

Short of that, you have to rip people off ala Wolf of Wall Street, etc.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:08 AM
 
29,462 posts, read 33,705,926 times
Reputation: 11093
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
So you think if a tree grows, and a man points to it and tells a man with a saw to cut it down, and he sells the timber, and gives 20% to the logger, it is the man who pointed to the tree who created the wealth.
Yes, if he owned the tree. If he didnít and the man who cut it down gave him the wood in exchange for twenty years percent of the profit yes again. Why did the man need someone to tell him to cut it down to make money? No initiative? Why?
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Old 05-17-2018, 03:18 PM
 
912 posts, read 551,334 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javawood View Post
$1 that goes up 500% is $500. $1,000,000 that goes up 500% is $500,000,000. The math makes sense to me.
Ummm, yeah, that's not how math works. 500% is an increase of 5 times the base number. Your example is a 50,000% increase.
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