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Old 05-13-2018, 10:56 AM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
So you think if a tree grows, and a man points to it and tells a man with a saw to cut it down, and he sells the timber, and gives 20% to the logger, it is the man who pointed to the tree who created the wealth.
The person who owned the tree already had the asset and the wealth. Itís up to others throughout the value chain to add value. They donít get to merely extract wealth from the owner. Thatís the entire point. Wealth isnít a fixed zero sum. It can be created down the chain. Instead of trying to take other people wealth, add value and create wealth.

One person might compete by providing commodity style labor of simply cutting it down. One person might try to sell this wood to merely be burned in a fire place. While another person might provide it by turning that tree into a table sold for hundreds of dollars more.

Itís the job of each person to find their niche to the value chain where they can eek out a living.

Itís just like nature. Each animal in an ecosystem plays a role.
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,393,710 times
Reputation: 8778
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
If you only think in terms of money, nothing makes sense.

Let's consider prosperity - the prodigious production, equitable trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services.

Do the 1% really consume 82% of the food produced?
The shoes produced?
The clothes produced?
The entertainment produced?
Not really.

So what are they really acquiring?
Power.
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:59 AM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncguy50 View Post
If you think capitalism is greed and that wealth redistribution is morally sound, I have a bridge in Venezuela you might be interested in.

Egalitarianism is slavery wrapped in the seductive promise of a Utopian society that is always 15 to 20 years down the road.

You know, in Venezuela, the army is deserting, the population is eating the zoo animals, and life is generally miserable for all but friends of Chavez/Maduro. And some of those lucky socialists have moved to Florida and bought big, walled houses. Suffering is for others. The little people.

You have to have some good scratch to buy those kinds of properties. How do you think they got so rich in a country where capitalist enterprises are nationalized for the benefit of "all"?

The company I worked for had our Venezuelan plant seized by the army. Another company I worked for is basically pulling out of the country because the bolivar is near worthless .000014 usd exchange rate.

It’s funny what happens in a country where the government can just come in and take your assets. People stop producing value there. Eventually, there’s nothing left to just extract value from. At some point, you have to create it.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:04 AM
 
8,272 posts, read 3,452,461 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Power.
A few accumulate power, most gain more assets.

Bank deposits.
RE.
Stocks.
Other potentially money making investments/ventures.

Having money to passively invest and make more money is the golden path.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:09 AM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
If that were the case I'd be richer. I have several trees on my property.

Nope, it won't create wealth for me, rather it will create wealth for the man cutting them down, ad he wanted a small fortune from me to cut them down. Then HE gets to keep the wood and sell the wood for fire burning and wood chips for cash I'll never see.

I get nothing out of my trees, but they will sure costs me a lot if money if I want them gone.

Something is wrong with that system.

Bad example.

What is several trees?

I think that has more to do with scale....or should I say the lack of it.

It’s not like you own a forest. You’re in need of a service where they have the risk and equipment. They are providing the value to you. It’s not like you’re selling a mill thousands of trees, where groups down the value chain see dollar signs. If that were the case, you would absolutely retain benefit instead of having nothing but costs.

Your story doesn’t really refute the example like you think it does.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:16 AM
 
Location: The South
4,525 posts, read 3,164,555 times
Reputation: 6570
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
So you think if a tree grows, and a man points to it and tells a man with a saw to cut it down, and he sells the timber, and gives 20% to the logger, it is the man who pointed to the tree who created the wealth.
Typically, the man pointing to the tree planted it, so yes.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:22 AM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern man View Post
Typically, the man pointing to the tree planted it, so yes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mWuNeGsK3Qg

Lmao. This is what all of this forest talk has me thinking.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:25 AM
 
5,220 posts, read 2,375,434 times
Reputation: 5111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mWuNeGsK3Qg

Lmao. This is what all of this forest talk has me thinking.
That's hillarious!
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,115 posts, read 9,199,435 times
Reputation: 8982
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Power.
If so, what did that power have to do with the food, shoes, clothes and entertainment that was consumed by the masses?
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Kirkland, WA (Metro Seattle)
3,416 posts, read 2,814,585 times
Reputation: 5877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Itís the job of each person to find their niche to the value chain where they can eek out a living.

Itís just like nature. Each animal in an ecosystem plays a role.
And on every branch, on the way up, there are winners and losers. That's difficult for many to accept. Welcome to business, though. My dad never wanted to play that game, but explained it to me when I was a teen. I heard him. I was not super ambititious, but became more-so when I learned that the deck was not loaded against me per se, if neither exactly for me either. It helps being a White male. I do believe, after many years of pondering, that is a definite life-advantage. In the future, who knows.

I've shot others off the branches around me to rise up. Bested opponents for roles, and been bested. Been kicked off the branch myself. For every branch down, I've climbed two including one sideways. That seems to be the way. Everyone loses sometimes; it's how you learn and pick yourself up again and percevere that defines success. End of the day, finding myself at "Upper Middle Class" by any reasonable definition.

I really don't care about who has lost out on wealth created recently, if that was point of the OP's little missive. My holdings are up quite a bit in the period, but I'm not in the 1%, so go figure. I believe I'm one of those as I call them "High Priests who Serve the Business Leaders", and those in-turn serve the Oligarchs. Keeping in mind my lack of objectivity, summarized by the following:

"The idea that the real divide is between ordinary members of the bottom 99% and the rich 1% is a dangerous one, since it makes it easier for those in the upper middle class to convince themselves they are in the same economic boat as the rest of America; theyíre not," wrote Nathan Joo and Richard V. Reeves of the Brookings Institution.

Yes, those who made, and continue to make, the right moves are doing fine. Those who didn't, and don't, are falling further into the Abyss. That's what gives rise to bums on the Seattle City Council who want to tax success to supply more "services" to vagrants with zero accountability, then seem all hurt when they are finally...FINALLY...shouted down by the very workers they are allegedly representing. Sickos.
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