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Old 05-14-2018, 06:25 AM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MechaMan View Post
For every rich American that leaves, he will be replaced by 2 rich Russians, 2 rich Chinese and 2 rich Arabs.
That’s not true. The reason the rich Americans and rich people of the countries you mentioned are attracted to invest in America is because of the economic system set up. Destroy that to the point where the rich Americans want to leave, and I’m not so sure the rich foreigners will continue to poor money in.

And people apparently seem to think the rich just horde this money in a bunker. It’s all capital being put to use around the world. In fact, every real job I have had is because a person started a business and sky rocketed to billionaire status. One of these companies was a global powerhouse that stayed private and another is the global leader who is public. Were the original owners people to be scorned? These companies have created tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars of value for society. I’ve never been paid an excellent living wage by a poor person.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 05-14-2018 at 06:37 AM..
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
4,019 posts, read 1,468,650 times
Reputation: 5406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Wow, there are a lot of people on here that despise capitalism and felicitate the poor. Even though they saw the failure of socialism and communism.

Not everyone will get the same piece of the pie when it comes to capitalism, that doesn't mean you kill the baker and his business. That just means you put in the work to help bake a bigger cake which will give you a bigger piece.
Communism has failed. Socialism is alive and well and working wonders in many countries. For example: China, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand, and Belgium.

We are seeing capitalism fail, just as communism did. It's not a matter of everyone having the same piece of the pie. It's that the 1% will soon have the entire pie. It's pretty hard to have a successful political system where 1% prosper, and 99% suffer.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
10,892 posts, read 7,710,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
Communism has failed. Socialism is alive and well and working wonders in many countries. For example: China, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand, and Belgium.

We are seeing capitalism fail, just as communism did. It's not a matter of everyone having the same piece of the pie. It's that the 1% will soon have the entire pie. It's pretty hard to have a successful political system where 1% prosper, and 99% suffer.
Incorrect! The nations bolded are capitalist nations with generous welfare benefits and the high taxes that go with that.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
2,927 posts, read 1,429,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua View Post
Incorrect! The nations bolded are capitalist nations with generous welfare benefits and the high taxes that go with that.

I'd generally agree with that. China has an interesting blend of communism and hyper capitalism that makes it an attractive global model for international financiers such as George Soros. What his ilk really desire is a return to old fashioned feudalism. With the bankers being the all powerful kings.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Maryland
799 posts, read 236,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
Communism has failed. Socialism is alive and well and working wonders in many countries. For example: China, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand, and Belgium.

We are seeing capitalism fail, just as communism did. It's not a matter of everyone having the same piece of the pie. It's that the 1% will soon have the entire pie. It's pretty hard to have a successful political system where 1% prosper, and 99% suffer.
Be careful applying socialism to countries that have liberal social policies. I’ve not checked them all but the list you label socialist is at least partially incorrect. E.G.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/dan...-not-socialist

“"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added”
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
4,019 posts, read 1,468,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua View Post
Incorrect! The nations bolded are capitalist nations with generous welfare benefits and the high taxes that go with that.
Hum I always hear capitalists refer to generous welfare as socialism.

The main purpose of socialism I believe is to distribute the wealth evenly. That can be done successfully with high taxes on the wealthy and generous welfare benefits to everyone else. As is done in those countries, on the list. It's a good system. It's sustainable.

The capitalist system that we have now on the other hand, which results in the 1% getting infinitely more wealthy and the 99% getting infinitely more poorer, is not sustainable. Right now we are just waiting for the 99% to hit rock bottom, so they will start fighting back against the failed capitalistic system.

So I don't accept that socialism has failed, and I don't accept that capitalism is a success. Capitalism is not even sustainable. That is why socialism will ultimately triumph over capitalism, IMHO.
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
4,019 posts, read 1,468,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesLucid View Post
Be careful applying socialism to countries that have liberal social policies. I’ve not checked them all but the list you label socialist is at least partially incorrect. E.G.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/dan...-not-socialist

“"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added”
Whatever you want to call it, socialism or a welfare state, it works.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:18 AM
 
8,278 posts, read 3,452,461 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
Obamacare lives on. A trucker who owns his logging truck is required to pay $1,000 a month for family medical insurance and that gets him a $5,000 deductible. The insurance company pays nothing until the logger has paid $17,000 out of pocket. And the OP is worried about the creation of wealth?

That said. The "Oxfam study" was worldwide. A self employed person in America owns a $100,000 logging truck. A self employed worker in Haiti gathers sticks to be made into charcoal. He trades his sticks for a bowl of rice to live another day.
With Obamacare the maximum OOP per year is $7150 per, and twice that for a family. But by then the plan is already paying out.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:47 AM
 
9,082 posts, read 3,697,658 times
Reputation: 13382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
The main purpose of socialism I believe is to distribute the wealth evenly.

So I don't accept that socialism has failed, and I don't accept that capitalism is a success.
probably because you don't know the definition of socialism...

distributing evenly, would be closer to communism... as in communal, as in everyone gets a share...
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
4,019 posts, read 1,468,650 times
Reputation: 5406
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
probably because you don't know the definition of socialism...

distributing evenly, would be closer to communism... as in communal, as in everyone gets a share...
With all due respect, I think I know far better what the definition of socialism is, then you do. Socialism has been about eliminated gross inequalities in wealth since the very beginning. That is why it was created. Capitalism creates inequalities in wealth, and socialism works to solve the problem. Capitalism is like a rubber band. It keeps stretching and stretching, and stretching, until it will finally break. And it will break. No way can it continue like this. When capitalism collapses, socialism will be there to provide the solution.

Quote:
The term "socialism" was created by Henri de Saint-Simon, one of the founders of what would later be labelled "utopian socialism". Simon coined "socialism" as a contrast to the liberal doctrine of "individualism", which stressed that people act or should act as if they are in isolation from one another. The original "utopian" socialists condemned liberal individualism for failing to address social concerns during the industrial revolution, including poverty, social oppression and gross inequalities in wealth, thus viewing liberal individualism as degenerating society into supporting selfish egoism that harmed community life through promoting a society based on competition.
Socialism - Wikipedia
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