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Old 05-14-2018, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,393,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
I purposely left out my opinion to encourage debate and discussion. This concentration of wealth is almost a law of nature, and can be applied to many aspects of nature outside of economics. There is nothing good or bad about it, it merely is. Though the system we have is not perfect, I'd be hard pressed to say that there's a better way, at least until we have the technology to automate our jobs, provide free food and energy, etc. I'm pleased to see some good discussion come of the article.
There is a better way than the United States does it.

Most notably, the U.S. needs to socialize its health care and its education system similar to the way it has socialized utilities like water. The other Western Democracies already do this and the successful Asian countries also do it.

It's not that it's free, you still have to pay when you use more of a utility, but it's not outrageous gouging like colleges and hospitals do.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:55 PM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
There is a better way than the United States does it.

Most notably, the U.S. needs to socialize its health care and its education system similar to the way it has socialized utilities like water. The other Western Democracies already do this and the successful Asian countries also do it.

It's not that it's free, you still have to pay when you use more of a utility, but it's not outrageous gouging like colleges and hospitals do.
They do it under the umbrella of Pax Americana, where the U.S maintained a watchful eye on aggression in those regions. They wouldn’t be able to live so well and skrimp on military if the barbarions were allowed at the gates. It’s a price America pays for the dollar system. Being the policeman.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:01 PM
 
369 posts, read 150,114 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
If you only think in terms of money, nothing makes sense.

Let's consider prosperity - the prodigious production, equitable trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services.

Do the 1% really consume 82% of the food produced?
The shoes produced?
The clothes produced?
The entertainment produced?
Not really.

So what are they really acquiring?
The answer is : the power.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:15 PM
 
369 posts, read 150,114 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua View Post
Incorrect! The nations bolded are capitalist nations with generous welfare benefits and the high taxes that go with that.
If you analyse the fraction of GDP, which goes to the government in e.g. Sweden, you conclude it is MOSTLY social. Sorry!
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:36 PM
 
8,504 posts, read 2,387,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
So you think if a tree grows, and a man points to it and tells a man with a saw to cut it down, and he sells the timber, and gives 20% to the logger, it is the man who pointed to the tree who created the wealth.
The truth is more clear.

Wall Street went to KY and WV and bought up ALL the timber rights from illiterate people - they then took 100% of the timber and 100% of the coal, employing the locals (who could not farm any longer because the loss of trees washed away the soil) at low wages and subject to "the market".

To this day the landowners of that region are in dire poverty and have lived shortened lives.

If the "man" gave 20% to the workers, we'd all be doing OK.

An iphone X costs about $5 in labor to build. It sells for $1,000 up.

That's .5% the man gets for chopping down the tree.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:11 PM
 
2,240 posts, read 1,385,700 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
The truth is more clear.

Wall Street went to KY and WV and bought up ALL the timber rights from illiterate people - they then took 100% of the timber and 100% of the coal, employing the locals (who could not farm any longer because the loss of trees washed away the soil) at low wages and subject to "the market".

To this day the landowners of that region are in dire poverty and have lived shortened lives.

If the "man" gave 20% to the workers, we'd all be doing OK.

An iphone X costs about $5 in labor to build. It sells for $1,000 up.

That's .5% the man gets for chopping down the tree.
It costs $5 if you don’t understand business. But it costs labor to design it, test it, market it, support it in the aftermarket, produce it, transport it, sales front people to sell it, legal services, financial services....and the list goes on. And on. You can’t take a product to market by spending $5 in production labor.

And the trees and coal wasn’t worth anything without the capital and expertise to extract it. Or without a buyer who can add more value to the commodity. The area wouldn’t have been any better off without Wall Street. It’s more likely that the original people who sold it were short sighted and later generations fell victim to the “resource curse”.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 05-14-2018 at 07:33 PM..
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Ohio
17,986 posts, read 13,233,625 times
Reputation: 13765
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
World's richest 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017, Oxfam study finds

More than $8 of every $10 of wealth created last year went to the richest 1%.
That's according to a new report from Oxfam International, which estimates that the bottom 50% of the world's population saw no increase in wealth.

So what if were true?


What percent of the other 99% actually wants Wealth?


Wealth is a lot of work to handle and maintain, and many people simply aren't inclined to that, or have no interest in doing it, or are incapable of doing it.


Wealth only exists because of Demand. Without Demand for real estate, then real estate would be worthless. Stock prices are based on Demand for the stock as well as Demand for the underlying products or services offered by the company that sells the stock.


The DOW has increased from 2,300 in 1981 to more than 23,000 now, not because of Reagan's policies or some conspiracy, but because Demand has increased domestically and globally at a faster rate than any other time in history.


And there's not much anyone can do about it. There isn't enough cash or credit to liquidate all of the assets to redistribute money to The Poor™, and it wouldn't matter if there was, since a massive liquidation would result in an equally massive reduction in price to almost nothing, so the value of the Wealth evaporates.


You could attempt to parcel out the Wealth. That means The Poor™ would have a 10' x 10' plot of land right smack in the middle of thousands of other 10' x 10' plots of land.


It's value would be nearly $0.



Without an easement to get to the 10' x 10' plot of land in the middle of thousands of other 10' x 10' plots of land, it would be worthless.


The Poor™ don't know much about easements, if they know anything at all, and they certainly wouldn't know how to file the paperwork, and couldn't afford an attorney to help, much less buy up the property needed.


You could parcel out the stocks, but The Poor™ would liquidate it for next to nothing, since they live in the "hear and now" and have no concern for the future.



No matter what happens, in the end, the 1% will end up with the bulk of the Wealth again, and it's in everyone's best interest that the people who create jobs have the means to do exactly that.
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:04 AM
 
6,308 posts, read 4,765,469 times
Reputation: 8437
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Just because you read something does not make it true. Before you swallow the line, it is best to question the source. In this case, the data is coming from a highly biased source. Oxfam International is a "charity" that collects money to fight poverty. We have no idea where they came up with these numbers but they clearly serve their purpose. I am also turned off when I read about the wealthy "grabbed" more. Clearly that is an attempt to sensationalize rather than to present the facts.
Change "grabbed" to "earned" and it's correct.

Quote:
I have no idea if poverty in the world is getting worse or better. It seems that the world economies have been doing well lately, but we also know that dictators and corrupt governments are common in much of the third world...and even in some first world countries. We do know that the standards of living in China and India and a great many other former third world countries have boomed.
Better.
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:10 AM
 
5,392 posts, read 5,638,461 times
Reputation: 2380
I be much more interested in just the first world. I often wonder how much of the wealth in the first world is concentrated.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:11 AM
 
Location: Northern Maine
9,481 posts, read 14,283,094 times
Reputation: 8883
Teachers, firemen and union workers of all kinds have pension plans that own stocks and bonds. That makes them part of the 1%.
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