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Old 06-17-2018, 05:41 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,714,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
It's not a crisis for me, and I'm not concerned about it. I'll worry about my retirement, and you can worry about yours.

Except that when it's a problem for enough people, government might do something that you won't like.
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Then it’s a good time to find a buyer who values those skills and start making more money at a company that doesn’t pay minimum wage.

Some skills pay enough to support a person well, but not so well that they need to hire other people to perform it. These people add all the value themselves and hire others at low wages only for menial taxks.
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Old 06-17-2018, 10:06 PM
 
5,221 posts, read 2,377,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Except that when it's a problem for enough people, government might do something that you won't like.
They’re already doing things that I don’t like.

Go ahead and subscribe to your “give us free stuff or you won’t like the consequences” philosophy and I’ll continue living my life just as I am right now. Who do you think will come out ahead?
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:26 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,714,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
They’re already doing things that I don’t like.

Go ahead and subscribe to your “give us free stuff or you won’t like the consequences” philosophy and I’ll continue living my life just as I am right now. Who do you think will come out ahead?

I'm not looking for free stuff. I think it will be more entertaining to watch the transformation into two Americas where people live either in a first world country or a third world country.
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:59 AM
 
1,025 posts, read 559,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I do not entertain the conservative delusion that burger flippers will see a higher wage if employers no longer had to pay 7.65% of wages into SS.

Big Mac prices will fall a few cents and management compensation will increase a bit before burger flippers see any of it.
Employees benefit from reduction of enterprises' taxes only to the extent that the reduction may promote increased commercial activity and numbers of jobs.
Excerpted from first post of:Taxes are not passed onto employees
... Thus, enterprises can pass on extremely small portions of their expenses on to employees. If enterprises taxes are reduced they generally pass on even lesser proportions of their tax reductions for the benefit of their employees. ...

Last edited by Supposn; 06-18-2018 at 01:08 AM..
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Old 06-18-2018, 04:08 AM
 
1,936 posts, read 3,300,856 times
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And for those who truly believe their employers would increase all wages by the 15+% cost of FICA and Medicare if these programs did not exist, I have some ocean front property in Idaho that I am willing to sell.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 13,579,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
And for those who truly believe their employers would increase all wages by the 15+% cost of FICA and Medicare if these programs did not exist, I have some ocean front property in Idaho that I am willing to sell.
You can say that all you want, but it does not constitute an argument. To prove a point, you have to make an argument.


I have two links for you, posted earlier in the thread, but now probably lost in the shuffle.


https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...xRates2006.pdf




https://taxfoundation.org/what-are-p...who-pays-them/


The first is from the Congressional Budget Office, a non-partisan agency established by congress to analyze the economic effects of proposals. The CBO assumes exactly what you decry.


The second is from the tax foundation, and explains how the economics work that do exactly what you say is an absurdity.
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Old 06-19-2018, 04:26 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,847 posts, read 57,851,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
You can say that all you want, but it does not constitute an argument.
To prove a point, you have to make an argument.
The argument is self evident.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:42 AM
 
1,025 posts, read 559,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
You can say that all you want, but it does not constitute an argument. To prove a point, you have to make an argument.
I have two links for you, posted earlier in the thread, but now probably lost in the shuffle.

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...xRates2006.pdf

https://taxfoundation.org/what-are-p...who-pays-them/ ...
Wutitiz, I'm unable to copy your PDF link but yes, the CBO's opinion is that enterprises pass their taxes onto employees.
The Tax Foundation was founded and continues to operate as a group opposed to FDR's “New Deal”. I do not consider it as authoritative. It is among my sources of right-wing opinions.

I'm among those contending a substantial portion of most enterprises labor costs are covered by minimum-rate laws and cannot be reduced. Due to the concept of wage differentials, it is less feasible for enterprises to reduce their labor costs that are beyond mandated minimum rates.

Thus, enterprises in aggregate can pass only extremely small portions of their expenses onto employees.

Last edited by Supposn; 06-19-2018 at 05:57 AM..
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 13,579,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Wutitiz, I'm unable to copy your PDF link but yes, the CBO's opinion is that enterprises pass their taxes onto employees.
The Tax Foundation was founded and continues to operate as a group opposed to FDR's “New Deal”. I do not consider it as authoritative. It is among my sources of right-wing opinions.

I'm among those contending a substantial portion of most enterprises labor costs are covered by minimum-rate laws and cannot be reduced. Due to the concept of wage differentials, it is less feasible for enterprises to reduce their labor costs that are beyond mandated minimum rates.

Thus, enterprises in aggregate can pass only extremely small portions of their expenses onto employees.
The CBO (pdf) link is just a statement of CBO policy, which I posted in post #1:


Quote:
Originally Posted by CBO

Who Pays Taxes?


CBO assumes—as do most economists—that employers’ share of payroll
taxes is passed on to employees in the form of lower wages than would otherwise
be paid. Therefore, the amount of those taxes is included in employees’ income, and
the taxes are counted as part of employees’ tax burden.

So it does not lay out the argument, just the conclusion. Note that, as they say, the vast majority of economists are in agreement. Tax incidence is one thing that economists are good at, because it can be analyzed w/ supply/demand curves.


The tax foundation link does supply the argument. To counter them, you would have to explain where their argument is wrong. Just to say that they are 'right wing' amounts to ad hominem, a logical fallacy.
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