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Old 05-28-2018, 07:50 PM
 
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Wutitiz, employers cannot (without their employee's consent), legally shift their enterprise's expense burdens onto an employee.
Enterprises' managers determine what portions of their expenses they pass on to customers, or employees or the enterprise should itself “eat”. They consider their enterprise's legal constraints and competitive positions within sales and labor markets.

In aggregate, the legally mandated minimum wage is a substantial portion of payrolls' total mounts; and it's usually a majority portion of enterprise's payrolls. Employers cannot reduce those portions of their payroll rates to defray their enterprises' shares of FICA payroll taxes.

This method could not legally defray the FICA expense for an employee that would otherwise earn less than $7.81 per hour.

To defray the FICA for a $7.81/Hr. Employee, reduce their pay rate to greater than $7.25/Hr but continue paying an additional (0.035325)($7.255) for each overtime hour.

To defray the FICA for a $10/Hr. Employee, reduce their pay rate to greater than $9.28/Hr but continue paying an additional (0.035325)($9.2893) for each overtime hour.

To defray the FICA for a $30/Hr. Employee, reduce their pay rate to greater than less than $27.86/Hr but continue paying an additional (0.035325)($27.86809) for each overtime hour.
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Old 05-29-2018, 02:29 PM
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Corporations don't pay taxes. Customers who buy their products/services pay them, in the form of higher prices.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell View Post
Corporations don't pay taxes. Customers who buy their products/services pay them, in the form of higher prices.
and even then they find loopholes and other ways to cheap the government not to pay them.
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
and even then they find loopholes and other ways to cheap the government not to pay them.
When tax time comes around, do you just give the government all of your money, or do you look for ways to reduce what you owe?
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:10 AM
 
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Wutitiz, employers cannot (without their employees' consents), legally shift their enterprise's expense burdens onto an employee; but beyond the constraint of minimum wage laws, they can in effect do so by understating their employees' hourly rates or other compensation.
Within the constraint of our current $7.25 minimum wage rate, employees wages beyond 7.81/Hr., can be understated to the extent that they're not less than $7.25, but the formula for determining the precise reduction of wage rate for employer's recovery of FICA tax levied upon employers, does not itself defray the additional FICA tax at a rate of (0.035325) applied to their employees' overtime hours.

Enterprises' managers determine what portions of their expenses they pass on to customers, or employees or the enterprise should itself “eat”. Managers consider the legal and market constraints upon their enterprises. (All of the forementioned are facts).


I do not agree with the U.S. Congressional Budget Office's opinion regarding this matter. (it is an opinion rather than a fact). In aggregate, I doubt if majorities or even substantial minority proportions of taxes directly levied upon employers, are passed onto employees. But I don't see how our opinions can be proved or disproved.

Last edited by toosie; 05-31-2018 at 03:59 AM.. Reason: Signature
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:25 PM
 
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I've worked for several large corporations the employer benefit rate was always 28% - 38%. I had direct visibility to the actual costs broken out be category.
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Old 05-30-2018, 01:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
I've worked for several large corporations the employer benefit rate was always 28% - 38%. I had direct visibility to the actual costs broken out be category.
I missed something? You're writing of the “employer's” rather than the “employee's” benefit rates? Employer's benefit rate was applied to what and then the result was added or subtracted from

Last edited by toosie; 05-31-2018 at 03:59 AM..
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Old 05-30-2018, 02:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
When tax time comes around, do you just give the government all of your money, or do you look for ways to reduce what you owe?
They get all my money
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Old 05-30-2018, 02:31 PM
 
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SWFL, what I'm supposing you're discussing is how costs are attributed to labor for accounting purposes. This does not necessarily mean that employers can and do pass all of those expenses onto employees.

I well understand that employer's share of FICA is taxed at the same rate for all enterprises, and their income taxes effective rates vary between enterprises.
To the extent that they in aggregate pay some median rate, I would understand if enterprises in aggregate, pass on both that median income and their FICA taxes in the same manner, as they are both “normal commercial expenses”.
But if enterprises actually pass on any particular portion of any particular expense to their employees or their customers, are management decisions. There are cases in which enterprises have actually passed back expenses on to some of their suppliers.

There are legal and competitive restraints upon what portions of what expenses individual enterprises can pass on to whom.

Last edited by toosie; 05-31-2018 at 03:59 AM..
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Old 05-30-2018, 03:25 PM
 
846 posts, read 360,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
SWFL, what I'm supposing you're discussing is how costs are attributed to labor for accounting purposes. This does not necessarily mean that employers can and do pass all of those expenses onto employees.

I well understand that employer's share of FICA is taxed at the same rate for all enterprises, and their income taxes effective rates vary between enterprises.
To the extent that they in aggregate pay some median rate, I would understand if enterprises in aggregate, pass on both that median income and their FICA taxes in the same manner, as they are both “normal commercial expenses”.
But if enterprises actually pass on any particular portion of any particular expense to their employees or their customers, are management decisions. There are cases in which enterprises have actually passed back expenses on to some of their suppliers.

There are legal and competitive restraints upon what portions of what expenses individual enterprises can pass on to whom.

Respectfully, Supposn
No one has ever suggested employers actually hand their employee's a bill for these things, you don't have to keep repeating what everyone knows.

It's an assumption that wages are lower by X because the employer is paying X for benefits, which includes FICA, Medicare, unemployment, worker's comp, medical and dental insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, etc.

The total cost of those benefits per employee divided by the employee's wages is the 28% - 38% figure mentioned.
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