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Old 05-14-2018, 02:03 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,115 posts, read 10,185,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YuMart View Post
Obviously there is a lot of greed and corruption that hinders it, but do you think even if all of the politicians were great, honest, wholesome people, the U.S debt could ever be fully paid off? Or do you think we're too far gone and America will be destroyed before it could pay off 100% of its debt?

It's really mind boggling how much debt we are in yet we spend money worse than a teen girl who won the lottery. Uhh...Shouldn't you pay off all your debts BEFORE spending it on anything else?
In an industrialized, digitalized world of some 7 billion people and 300 million in a country of early industrialization such as the US, if you zero out the credit/debt system of money, what do you propose would replace it? A bunch of gold coins? This is not the year 700 BC.

The money/debt supply is backed by the economy's ability to produce and distribute goods and services over space and time.

Compared to other countries of early industrialization, the US is a tax haven, so taxes are not the issue (though the complexity of the federal income tax system is a useless drain on resources).

The issue is the efficiency of the money (credit/debt) supply over time (past, present and future); apparently high or excessive levels of debt, to income for example, may represent inefficiencies that cannot be sustained.

Over the past 20-30 years or so, a lot of people, perhaps too many people, have spent future income that they may never earn. Still, the economy produces more goods and services than we can shake a stick at, perhaps too many.

The debt is not a problem per se, but to the extent that it reflects imbalances between production and consumption, income and spending, across the population, over time.

By the way, there are winners and losers in this merry-go-round.
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:19 PM
 
17,674 posts, read 12,309,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodpete View Post
The fact that it has never tried to pay it off should give you the answer, .
Actually it was tried and done but the economy went into the crapper
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:53 PM
 
752 posts, read 411,671 times
Reputation: 1118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
Hoonose imagines:
"Our burden is taxes, not national debt."

In 1918 you could buy a cow with a $20 gold piece. Today you can buy a cow with that very same gold piece, but a $20 bill will buy you four pounds of good hamburg. These are facts. The real value of the cow and gold have not changed. The value of the $20 bill has plummeted.

What Hoonose and 99% of Americans do not realize is that inflation is a tax and it is entirely intentional. There's the problem. Illiteracy is sad, but innumeracy is EXPENSIVE.
Well said NM Land Man. I would like to add that the gold market is the most manipulated (supressed) of all markets. The FED hates gold and they do not want it to succeed. The success of gold will come with the necessary result of failed paper currencies. The Central Bankers want their cake, and they want to eat it too -meaning they want the power to devalue currencies but they don't want anyone to notice.

Clearly they don't want anyone to know there might be an alternative = GOLD. So, destruction of any alternative is a requiisite side required along with all this devaluation.

Remember, The FED has borrowed trillions and trillions of dollars from the future to spend today in hopes of derailing reality, which spending did temporary protect stocks, real estate and assets generally, but at a cost that we all and our kids + grandkids will have to pay!!!
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:54 PM
 
8,306 posts, read 3,487,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
Hoonose imagines:
"Our burden is taxes, not national debt."

In 1918 you could buy a cow with a $20 gold piece. Today you can buy a cow with that very same gold piece, but a $20 bill will buy you four pounds of good hamburg. These are facts. The real value of the cow and gold have not changed. The value of the $20 bill has plummeted.

What Hoonose and 99% of Americans do not realize is that inflation is a tax and it is entirely intentional. There's the problem. Illiteracy is sad, but innumeracy is EXPENSIVE.

I disagree. I would say that 99% of Americans worry about inflation.
Inflation is like an ongoing tax, but necessary to safely advance any modern economy, and give the people what they need.
Yes it is intentional.


"Cathcart grinned. "He got the cash money the same way we
have gotten all cash money since Roosevelt put the gold back in
the ground-right off the printing presses. But he didn't have to
print much of it. The checks were issued at the Bank and the
merchant and a great many others had accounts at the Bank and
very little cash money changed hands. The bulk of it was mere
bookkeeping entries, made by the bank clerks. Holmes had
implemented what the bankers had known for centuries but
were barred by LaGuardia from doing-taking money out of an
inkwell. What's the matter, son? Still not satisfied?"
"Well, I don't know. Everything you have said seems okay,
but how about this? If you keep pouring money into a country
indefinitely, you are bound to get inflation, fixed prices or no
fixed prices."
"You don't pour it in. You add just enough to keep it running.
Each fiscal period the additional amount is the closest possible
approximation of the amount necessary to prevent a spread
between consumption and production, based on the value of the
nation's inventories."
"But why do you have to keep adding money all the time?"
"I said I would stay away from theory but I'll give you this
hint to chew over: the amount necessary to add each period is
theoretically equal to the amount of savings invested as capital in
the preceding period. And one more hint: Doesn't it take more
money to run the country's industry now than it did when
George Washington was President?"

Robert A. Heinlein 'For Us, the Living' written in 1934, not published until 2001
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:56 PM
 
8,306 posts, read 3,487,286 times
Reputation: 1592
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post

Remember, The FED has borrowed trillions and trillions of dollars from the future to spend today in hopes of derailing reality, which spending did temporary protect stocks, real estate and assets generally, but at a cost that we all and our kids + grandkids will have to pay!!!
The Fed creates money, doesn't borrow it.
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:58 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,044,451 times
Reputation: 2071
Funny how our nation goes in debt, but manage to build things, and yet i go into debt i have to starve for a week to pay it off, or have the government take it out of my check.
Who playing fair?

Would love to have a blank check and not worry about it if it bounces..
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:06 PM
 
19,066 posts, read 6,284,752 times
Reputation: 12847
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
Funny how our nation goes in debt, but manage to build things, and yet i go into debt i have to starve for a week to pay it off, or have the government take it out of my check.
Who playing fair?

Would love to have a blank check and not worry about it if it bounces..
I have debt and will die with it, I won't starve worrying about paying debt. I make payments as needed and could care less about interest...when I'm gone it's gone --- pooffff... So many are so fearful of having interest in the debts, but not me.

I always make sure I have money for the necessities. And if it means interest, so be it.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:07 PM
 
17,674 posts, read 12,309,024 times
Reputation: 12918
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
Funny how our nation goes in debt, but manage to build things, and yet i go into debt i have to starve for a week to pay it off, or have the government take it out of my check.
Who playing fair?

Would love to have a blank check and not worry about it if it bounces..

If you could create money, tax people and never die then it might be comparable but alas itís not
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Sector 001
7,169 posts, read 5,993,504 times
Reputation: 8123
We have debt based currency.. it's impossible to pay the debt off because money is debt. Any time someone gets a loan that money is spent into the economy. It must be repaid back at a greater level than which it was created due to interest. This is fractional reserve compound interest banking.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:44 PM
 
370 posts, read 152,246 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post


What Hoonose and 99% of Americans do not realize is that inflation is a tax and it is entirely intentional. .
I praise you for understanding that.
Next step is: who benefits from that tax?
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