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Old 05-18-2018, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,171 posts, read 4,756,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
Robots have no need for currency so why do people think automation will create wealth?
Wealth = valuable things. Money is just a means of measuring value.

Advanced AI can produce a lot of valuable things with little or no human labor... high productivity. Only natural resources would limit what can be produced.
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,162 posts, read 9,247,039 times
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Wealth, aka "money tokens" is not synonymous with prosperity.
A mountain of money tokens will not help you if trapped upon a deserted island.


Whereas prosperity is based on prodigious production, equitable trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services.


Doing more with less so more can enjoy is superior to doing less with more so few can enjoy.
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:56 PM
 
828 posts, read 280,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
I'd like to pose a question I've been pondering for a while. With the coming age of AI (artificial intelligence) and how it will soon surpass human intelligence by orders of magnitude, .... Need unlimited clean energy? Just have the AI invent and manufacture nanobots which would then build a million square miles of solar panels - no humans needed. Or better yet, just task the sucker to build fusion plants and give the world a thousand times more energy than what we have now. And with unlimited energy, we can do unlimited things. Need resources that the Earth cannot provide? Just task robot harvesters which would collect everything we need from space (asteroids, etc.)
.....

Thoughts?
Surpass human intelligence by orders of magnitude? I think it surpasses our ability to COMPUTE by orders of magnitude.... not to THINK CREATIVELY. Not for a long time, if ever.

So we just 'task the sucker to build fusion plants'.. cold fusion? ..Of course, how silly of me

You know, why not just 'order it to cure every disease', including old age while we're at it?.... and let it keep the cash!

Now we're cooking with gas! ... uh, sorry, cold fusion.
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
181 posts, read 76,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Surpass human intelligence by orders of magnitude? I think it surpasses our ability to COMPUTE by orders of magnitude.... not to THINK CREATIVELY. Not for a long time, if ever.

So we just 'task the sucker to build fusion plants'.. cold fusion? ..Of course, how silly of me

You know, why not just 'order it to cure every disease', including old age while we're at it?.... and let it keep the cash!

Now we're cooking with gas! ... uh, sorry, cold fusion.
That's not the attitude China is taking towards AI. Why else would they be spending endless billions to develop this technology? If they get there before us, they'll have those fusion plants and disease elimination first - and they may not be so willing to share it with other nations, like the US.

General AI would be humanity's greatest achievement, if we're able to attain it. I don't know if we will, but it sure doesn't hurt to try.

Never say never ...
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:05 PM
 
828 posts, read 280,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
1. That's not the attitude China is taking towards AI. ....

2. General AI would be humanity's greatest achievement, if we're able to attain it.

3. Never say never ...
1.That's not my attitude, that's my opinion. Of course we should explore every avenue to empowerment.
P.S. You are talking to a science trained, self-taught machine-language computer programmer++ and I know full well the power of computers, and how they are programmed.

2 It could also be our greatest mistake.

3. I never said never. But I believe that obtaining the creative element in AI will be the biggest impediment to such an evolution that you dream of. Maybe when computers can dream, however...
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,171 posts, read 4,756,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
I know full well the power of computers, and how they are programmed.
AI isn't programmed though. It learns or is taught. How far it advances depends on the hardware tech. There won't be any safe haven for human "creativity" if human brain processing power is exceeded on an affordable scale.
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,821 posts, read 1,238,046 times
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Hey Op. They are working on these things already. Most trading is electronic already with parameters given based upon mathematical equations and many different pre-set givens and live feeds. AI is definitely being used offline to gain different insights, not sure if anyone's taken the dip to let the computer purely take over though.

Better to program your supercomputer on how to produce for you.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:47 AM
 
828 posts, read 280,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
AI isn't programmed though. It learns or is taught. How far it advances depends on the hardware tech. There won't be any safe haven for human "creativity" if human brain processing power is exceeded on an affordable scale.
Of course it is. It is programmed to learn.
Or did it spring, fully coded from a cabbage patch?
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:05 AM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,501 posts, read 1,730,509 times
Reputation: 3311
while the idea of AI doing what you describe might be a little way off I'll say that it's much closer than most naysayers think it is. Since AI ability grows so rapidly, it will be just a matter of getting to the point where the AI becomes self learning and then we will see the timelines evolve in hours instead of years.

Having said all that, I'm pretty sure the algorithms for wealth generation are already in place with the many trading systems currently being used. I suspect that mining new methods of wealth generation within our current financial infrastructure is where AI will be useful and even then only for a very short time until everyone else figures it out.

think about dividend trading - there was a point in time that people were making a good living purchasing stocks and holding them just long enough to be eligible for the dividend distribution. now the program trades that try to take advantage of that raise the prices enough so that you don't make money in that strategy anymore.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:19 AM
 
12,407 posts, read 9,251,495 times
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We are a long way away from having friendly Artificial General Intelligence (AGI). Even at much lower levels of technology, we struggle to implement security measures that don't render the underlying resources difficult to use. For example, try installing almost any complex software when you have firewalls and virus checkers plus a wireless internet connection. What often ends up happening is that your system is "so safe that you can't use it!" to quote a professor I know.

Similarly, anyone who has worked in a government lab like LLNL or the like which has sensitive information can attest to the fact that "in theory" it is possible to work remotely, but "in practice", it rarely works out reliably, because the security measures they implement end up making it difficult to get in, because the authentication stars have to align (kwim?)

Imagine what would happen with an AGI, one of the most potentially dangerous technologies, perhaps third place after fossil fuel use and nuclear weapons.

How on earth would we hope to make it secure without also making it near impossible to use, when we have such difficulty doing the same for much simpler technology?

In addition to all of this is the problem of technical debt, which can stop amazing software development dead in its tracks. With something so complex as an AGI, a lot of technical debt would be very likely to creep in, especially when those funding the project will likely become impatient and want faster results, and the developers will be pressured to sacrifice quality in the name of speed so that they don't lose their jobs.
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