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Old 06-05-2018, 12:00 PM
 
792 posts, read 1,402,605 times
Reputation: 1501

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Once again the jobs aren't in the steel and aluminum mills they are in the down stream fabricators. The higher cost steel and aluminum raw materials in the US will make the fabricators less competitive.

It takes two people to make the aluminum and five to fabricate a hand truck.

Even the Aluminum Association, the industry trade organization came out against the tariffs. Same with his bringing coal back....no one wants it.

Last edited by toosie; 06-06-2018 at 03:55 AM.. Reason: Edited for partisan politics
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Old 06-05-2018, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
27,448 posts, read 17,629,902 times
Reputation: 39933
Congress trying to enact legislation to restrict Presidential power to declare tariffs in response to "national security."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-f...l-be-stronger/
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:20 AM
 
1,025 posts, read 559,196 times
Reputation: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
The problem with factory jobs is automation and outsourcing. Construction is difficult to outsource or automate. Fracking is a new industry. Refineries are likewise not that easy to automate(i.e. every batch of oil is slightly different). Food Processing can be A/C but really the machinery does a lot of the work(i.e. A plant could triple production and not add triple the amount of workers).

Manufacturing like building cars is much easier to automate or to outsource than other industries and simply does not require as many people as it did in ages past.
Chirack, please reconsider your contention that any USA enterprise or industry generates too few or any jobs and is thus unworthy of our consideration.

Although all of a nation's production is captured within the GDP statistic, domestic production support that's not reflected within the prices of globally traded products cannot be recognized and attributed to global trade.

Lesser USA steel production reduces our economies of scale and increases costs of our steel per ton, which further increases the prices and reduces the production of USA steel producers and USA enterprises utilizing steel material and/or steel components.
If USA is levying a tariff on steel, it should levy a tariff upon all steel producers, and their customer's products. What's the point of a steel tariff that increases the price disadvantages of USA enterprises purchasing steel?

There are also unapparent but actual relationships of individual enterprises and/or entire industries not generally recognized as related to goods-producing industries, but significantly benefiting due to commercial activity generated from such enterprises.

Manufacturing enterprises of all sizes and extent of their degrees of automation, use engineers, plumbers, janitors, repairs, maintenance, and updating of their production lines and tools, pencils and pens. They are indirectly serviced and generate additional revenues for such enterprises as mass transportation, pizza and coffee shops, or local taverns.

I agree with those contending that there should not be commercial enterprises considered as “too large to be permitted to fail”, and there's generally few (if any) enterprises or industries that should, as a matter of policy be beneath our consideration.

Last edited by toosie; 06-10-2018 at 05:11 AM..
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Anchorage
278 posts, read 120,585 times
Reputation: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrat View Post
Many on here don't understand that these tariffs are not just about saving one industries jobs, Its about forcing other countries to open there protectionist markets to American goods.
These countries are enjoying free access to American markets while protecting there own markets from American business.

So far the response has been just the opposite. Mexico and the EU just imposed their own tariffs on US goods. I don't think Trump's tariffs are scaring them into submission.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:14 AM
 
191 posts, read 89,363 times
Reputation: 744
tariffs don't work ? but why does Canada have these tariffs?
270% dairy
69.9% Sausage
57.8% Barely Seed
49% Durum Wheat
26.5% Bovine/Meat
18% Table Linen
Why did Canada create "ingredient strategy" tariff in 2015?

To protect those important industries and curb US imports.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,672 posts, read 9,425,981 times
Reputation: 14930
The day before tariffs, worldwide demand for steel was X tons, and output was Y tons.
The day after the tariffs, worldwide demand for steel is X tons, and output is Y tons.
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:13 PM
 
2,930 posts, read 3,687,646 times
Reputation: 1413
Quote:
Originally Posted by notrhj View Post
tariffs don't work ? but why does Canada have these tariffs?
270% dairy
69.9% Sausage
57.8% Barely Seed
49% Durum Wheat
26.5% Bovine/Meat
18% Table Linen
Why did Canada create "ingredient strategy" tariff in 2015?

To protect those important industries and curb US imports.
All countries have tariffs but badly implemented tariffs such as those on steel can do more harm than good.
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:16 PM
 
2,930 posts, read 3,687,646 times
Reputation: 1413
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
The day before tariffs, worldwide demand for steel was X tons, and output was Y tons.
The day after the tariffs, worldwide demand for steel is X tons, and output is Y tons.
The problem is downsteam…. If steal costs more then the cost of the products that contain it will increase which will then reduce demand for them. Also it takes a bit of time for the effects to kick in(more than a day).
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,672 posts, read 9,425,981 times
Reputation: 14930
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
The problem is downsteam…. If steal costs more then the cost of the products that contain it will increase which will then reduce demand for them. Also it takes a bit of time for the effects to kick in(more than a day).
Yeah, I get your point.

Tariffs that are selective by country tend to just rearrange the deck chairs. Instead of importing steel from China you import steel from Turkey, and instead of exporting steel out of China to the USA, they export steel out of China to Turkey's former customers. Shipping costs go up, but that isn't particularly material.
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