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Old 06-07-2018, 07:05 AM
 
Location: trapped in the body of a dying animal
3,174 posts, read 1,347,495 times
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Our ethanol industry is a synergy of wasteful stupidity. Started as a half-baked environmental idea that pretty quickly proved anything but 'green' and then perpetuated by welfare-queen farmers and politicians who pander to that group.

I predict huge growth in the industry for the foreseeable future. It's the American Way
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:26 AM
 
4,706 posts, read 4,823,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Our ethanol industry is a synergy of wasteful stupidity. Started as a half-baked environmental idea that pretty quickly proved anything but 'green' and then perpetuated by welfare-queen farmers and politicians who pander to that group.

I predict huge growth in the industry for the foreseeable future. It's the American Way
I don't think that most people get it.

Most think that the issue is about farm subsidies and nothing to do with gasoline.

Most gasoline around here is 10% ethanol (corn). In some states there is 100% ethanol (corn) gas.

The whole supply chain from the farmers to the ethanol processing plants receive federal tax money subsidies. Some view this as corporate welfare.

When this ethanol subsidy began, the US was a net importer of gasoline (oil). Today the US is a net exporter of gasoline. So why continue all of these taxpayer subsidies?
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:47 AM
 
37,071 posts, read 38,273,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey2k View Post
US Taxpayers shouldn't have to subsidize any industry. If there isn't enough demand for it and it can't stand up on its own, it shouldn't be artificially propped up.

Setting aside wastes such as subsidizing corn for ethanol and other issues there is a very good reason to subsidize farmers. Farming is a difficult business because in part you are relying on Mother Nature and that is something completely out of your control. These subsidies are a means to insure the food supply.

If a farmer has a good harvest while he may have plenty of product to sell prices are very low, if they have a bad harvest prices are high but little product to sell. Without the subsidies the farmer is only going to plant what they expect for average year and if they have a poor harvest you end up with food shortages and high food prices. What the subsidy does is guarantee they over plant insuring a food supply during years with a poor harvest.
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:26 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
1,650 posts, read 628,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Setting aside wastes such as subsidizing corn for ethanol and other issues there is a very good reason to subsidize farmers. Farming is a difficult business because in part you are relying on Mother Nature and that is something completely out of your control. These subsidies are a means to insure the food supply.

If a farmer has a good harvest while he may have plenty of product to sell prices are very low, if they have a bad harvest prices are high but little product to sell. Without the subsidies the farmer is only going to plant what they expect for average year and if they have a poor harvest you end up with food shortages and high food prices. What the subsidy does is guarantee they over plant insuring a food supply during years with a poor harvest.

Right Arm!


Old joke: A farmer wins a multi-million dollar lottery. A reporter asks him what he's gunna do now that he's rich? "I'll keep right on farming....at least until the money runs out."


A sod buster gets ~$3.75 for a bushel of corn, of which only $0.25 is actually profit. That bushel of corn will produce 50 boxes of breakfast cereal-- sold at $5 each. Who's getting rich putting food on the grocery store shelves? Not the farmer.



The farmer takes out loans for hundreds of thousands of dollars to finance the production of the crop, all at the risk of the weather, unpredictable markets, etc. Easy to go bust for just a chance at only a small profit.


"Food security" is a lot more than just protecting our supply from a terrorist's poison.
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:49 PM
 
1,663 posts, read 1,065,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey2k View Post
US Taxpayers shouldn't have to subsidize any industry. If there isn't enough demand for it and it can't stand up on its own, it shouldn't be artificially propped up.
AMEN! we subsidize the oil industry even though they make billions in profit and we even subsidize farmers, farming is also a multi-billion dollar industry.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:14 AM
 
10,265 posts, read 6,491,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unit731 View Post
"As a result, taxpayers have spent billions of dollars over the last 30 years subsidizing the production of corn ethanol, while at the same time creating unintended costs for consumers and the environment.

To start, the farm bill, a massive piece of legislation covering topics ranging from nutrition assistance to broadband internet, provides government subsidies for the now-mature ethanol industry, including corporate agribusiness giants such as Archer Daniels Midland."

Should US taxpayer money subsidize (pay) Archer Daniels Midland and others in 2018 and beyond?


And what are the unintended costs associated with these subsidies?
This is part of the corporate welfare that the Republicans love while hating poor people who are trying to put a roof over their head and food in their stomachs.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:55 AM
 
17,613 posts, read 12,197,156 times
Reputation: 12846
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Our ethanol industry is a synergy of wasteful stupidity. Started as a half-baked environmental idea that pretty quickly proved anything but 'green' and then perpetuated by welfare-queen farmers and politicians who pander to that group.

I predict huge growth in the industry for the foreseeable future. It's the American Way

The biggest issue is actually that the US decided to go corn based and not a better alternative like saw grass. Why choose a more inefficient crop that is also a food source?
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:02 AM
 
10,696 posts, read 20,119,835 times
Reputation: 9849
Ethanol was put into gas as a replacement for MBTE due to groundwater contamination issues. During the huge run up in oil prices the idea was kicked around to run cars off ethanol like they do in Brazil. But down there they use sugarcane to make it which is a much more viable source.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
321 posts, read 201,412 times
Reputation: 670
Feeding our people is for the national defense. Keeping the crops coming in is a worthwhile investment. Perhaps farmers should switch over to hemp, pot, poppies, etc., and make much more money. If farmers produced another source of "crop", we would need to import our food, therefore effecting the national defense. Which by the way, we pay billions of dollars for. Subsidizing farmers is much like an infrastructure investment, got to keep the country moving. Most businesses are subsidized anyway through favorable tax structures, look the other way regulations, etc...(God I sound like a liberal, sorry), but I come from a family of farmers. Last point, the "Agriculture budget" is misleading. This budget is in the billions, which farmers receive very little. This huge budget is the "food stamp" program, which doesn't prop up farmers in any way.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:46 AM
 
10,265 posts, read 6,491,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krug View Post
This huge budget is the "food stamp" program, which doesn't prop up farmers in any way.
How does it not, are they not buying food and they just buying bottled water with food stamps?

Crops are subsidized and sold to corporations that turn those crops into food, that food is sold and paid for in part by food stamps. That food stamp money helps the economy by paying store owners who sell that food.

So only feeding the rich is national defense?
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