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Old 06-15-2018, 03:23 PM
 
369 posts, read 114,846 times
Reputation: 881

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Cut to the chase here.
Note:I've not read the posts so you can tell me to bug off.
The picture as I see it.
Minimum wage jobs are for kids that have no skills, i.e. Baby sitting, flipping burgers. sweeping floors.
Do not expect to survive on such wages, that's not remotely possible and you can not complain that it's not a living wage. Get educated, get experienced, get paid accordingly

 
Old 06-15-2018, 03:27 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,027,668 times
Reputation: 2071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Iím not sure why some of you are so drawn to the economics forums but know so little about it. You participate in these threads and thereís many excellent explanations given, yet you choose to ignore it and just uselessly complain. Itís just stunning to me. At least learn something.

Stay awhile, and listen.
back up the bus and double tap us while your at it.

I listen and response, agree to disagree. Yes so many explanations and great arguments. This what makes this forum great. We can all express our own POV in things that some understand and some don't including myself. I be first admit, my grammar, and politics-economics are my weakness on why thing are the way they are. I question life every day on why it is run that way and nobody wants to change it. ( this is why we have lobbies).

I dont mind learning and why i come here and ask questions, have arguments and maybe have some great discussions. Learn that their was 2 people that we always have different sides agreeing on one thing. Got to love the internet.
 
Old 06-15-2018, 03:29 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,027,668 times
Reputation: 2071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copymutt View Post
Cut to the chase here.
Note:I've not read the posts so you can tell me to bug off.
The picture as I see it.
Minimum wage jobs are for kids that have no skills, i.e. Baby sitting, flipping burgers. sweeping floors.
Do not expect to survive on such wages, that's not remotely possible and you can not complain that it's not a living wage. Get educated, get experienced, get paid accordingly

Correct, but go back to the FDR statement. At the time it was consider a living cost. Few posts back..
 
Old 06-15-2018, 03:29 PM
 
15,385 posts, read 8,682,121 times
Reputation: 13770
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
OK. So why do you go to work every day? Most likely to make money. Right? Your employer comes in tomorrow and says he will no longer pay you $100 per hour. Your new salary is $1 per hour. After a little gnashing of teeth, you would most likely leave because you can't live on your new salary. You expect to be able to LIVE on what you make.

John is making $10 per hour. All he wants is a studio apartment, utilities, food, and a bus pass. Bare bones existence compared to your $100 per hour job. He is willing to work hard(harder than your desk job BTW) for 50 hours a week. But he can't get a job that will pay enough for that bare bones existence. What is John's motivation to go to work every day? He can't support himself. He can't continue his education. He has no way to get a better job. He has no hope for the future. So he quits and lives in his parent's basement. He opts out because he can't live on what he makes and he no longer sees working as a way out of poverty.

Jane is John's long term GF. Jane makes $10 per hour and lives at home because she has no choice. They always had a dream to be able to marry and live together one day but they can't afford it. One day Jane discovers she is pregnant. Don't judge...it's the only entertainment they have. Their first thought is to get married but they quickly do the math and realize they can't afford a 2br apartment, diapers, formula, medical for the baby, food, utilities, and transportation. But they really want a family. So here's their only option.

Jane becomes John's roommate and moves into the basement. She applies for welfare, SNAP, and medicaid. John starts doing odd jobs for cash around the neighborhood. They are poor but their basic needs are met. Most of their food comes from the foodbank and they use their cash and SNAP to take care of the baby. They can't marry because Jane and the baby would lose their benefits.

This is what happens in the real world when jobs don't pay enough to provide a decent basic living. And you have to have hope that someday you will be able to do better. A job needs to pay enough to live on. If not you will eventually look for another way.
Example #1 - if you were truly worth $100, then it will be easy for you to find another job that pays that wage. If you weren't, and were only worth $1, that's called supply and demand.

Example #2 - If John wants to earn more than $10, then he needs to better himself and slowly increase his earnings. It's not a leap to a huge salary, but a slow process. There are plenty of opportunities to do that, and if he really were a hard worker, he'd do that. But by your example, John is just a lazy, entitled loser who gives up easily. Blame his parents, for allowing him to quit and live in their basement. As for motivation - eating should be a good one. As a side note, you've obviously never had a desk job if you think they're all so easy.

Example #3 - Yup, I can judge. You can't afford a kid, don't do the deed that causes them. Period. I have no sympathy when women get knocked up and start sucking off the government.

Now, they're both losers. They're not the real world. The real world says you find a job that offers advancement, you keep your junk in your pants until you can afford kids, and you quit expecting the world to hand you a job just because you "want" one. Doesn't work that way. They're deadbeats who think they can steal the money I've worked hard to earn. I've earned it by starting at the bottom and slowly working my way up. By sacrificing, not giving up and working hard. By not having kids I can't afford.
 
Old 06-15-2018, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,151 posts, read 13,675,815 times
Reputation: 11364
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
so what your saying is, i need to act rich in order to get rich? isnt that what most people do anyways, and we call them fakers.

I just had my interview and review and they see that i have over 18 years experience doing what i do now, and ask me what my goal is. I would like to make 75k a year. I have a simple life with one child but can live comfortable at 75k. You would think somebody with my talents, i could have made this by now. Well as years went on during my 18 year history, the market becomes flooded and wage demands has decreased. So generality i will never see 75k a year unless i go back in to debt for another 10 years to get more education. But why spend another 10 years throwing money away, as 75k 10 years from now will be consider worthless by then.
No I’m saying someone has to be open even to the possibility of becoming rich or wealthy before it can happen.
Not pretending or faking it .
I can’t imagine there are people that don’t want to be wealthy or financially independent .

Things are competitive for sure these days . This is why people are looking for different ways .
Or some are deciding they are worth more and creating their own business.
I don’t know what field you are in though.

I also don’t think people should rely on just one income source ( a job )anymore .
 
Old 06-15-2018, 03:31 PM
 
15,385 posts, read 8,682,121 times
Reputation: 13770
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
I didnt say its impossible to do better, but the path that makes it impossible is the issue. so much BS to get where you want to be in life and the course to get their. Not expecting a hand out but shouldnt take 10 years to get what you want to work for as well.


As for rich people being greedy, every fn one of them are greedy. They would step on their mom dead body to grab that dollar they see in the street.
Which is different I suppose from you, who wants to quickly grab that dollar out of their hand, because working your way up the ladder is so haaard. No, that's not greedy at all.
 
Old 06-15-2018, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,437 posts, read 15,041,010 times
Reputation: 11924
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
John is making $10 per hour. All he wants is a studio apartment, utilities, food, and a bus pass. Bare bones existence compared to your $100 per hour job. He is willing to work hard(harder than your desk job BTW) for 50 hours a week. But he can't get a job that will pay enough for that bare bones existence. What is John's motivation to go to work every day? He can't support himself. He can't continue his education. He has no way to get a better job. He has no hope for the future. So he quits and lives in his parent's basement. He opts out because he can't live on what he makes and he no longer sees working as a way out of poverty.
Why not? A construction laborer or Amazon warehouse worker makes more than $10/hr. They're hiring. They aren't great jobs, but they're jobs. They have advancement paths. John doesn't need to further his education. He can go down and apply with Spectrum Staffing or whoever it is for a job at a local Amazon warehouse or at UPS or FedEx. UPS and FedEx are a little more picky. They like getting former Amazon warehouse workers though. Work as a package handler for a year or two for $14/hour and work up to a delivery driver starting at $20/hr. Oh, and they always have overtime. Within a couple years he's making a good $50-60,000/year. But John didn't want to do that because John is a loser. He should just make $50,000/yr flipping the burgers at McDonald's because since he gets a nasty hangover and crashes for a few days after a meth binge it's what he can get.

Quote:
Jane is John's long term GF. Jane makes $10 per hour and lives at home because she has no choice. They always had a dream to be able to marry and live together one day but they can't afford it. One day Jane discovers she is pregnant. Don't judge...it's the only entertainment they have. Their first thought is to get married but they quickly do the math and realize they can't afford a 2br apartment, diapers, formula, medical for the baby, food, utilities, and transportation. But they really want a family. So here's their only option.
Don't have long-term relationships with losers like John. CNAs make $14/hour. They're always hiring. Unlike working at the Amazon warehouse or construction site as a laborer, CNA does have barriers to entry. Jane could get herself down to the junior college for the ten-week CNA course, or phlebotomy. Unfortunately, Jane doesn't have any aspirations besides being a stay-at-home mom and isn't very realistic about these things obviously since she's picked John the drug addict. So rather than doing that, she dropped out of high school and got a job part-time job at the local dollar store stocking shelves so she could have more time to go out partying which is where she hooked up with John after doing come coke. Five years later, the part-time job is now full-time but doesn't pay very well. Plus John just shoots up anything she makes anyway so it doesn't matter.

Quote:
Jane becomes John's roommate and moves into the basement. She applies for welfare, SNAP, and medicaid. John starts doing odd jobs for cash around the neighborhood. They are poor but their basic needs are met. Most of their food comes from the foodbank and they use their cash and SNAP to take care of the baby. They can't marry because Jane and the baby would lose their benefits.

This is what happens in the real world when jobs don't pay enough to provide a decent basic living. And you have to have hope that someday you will be able to do better. A job needs to pay enough to live on. If not you will eventually look for another way.
Meanwhile, while John and Jane are going the welfare route you have Bill and Beatrice. Bill isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but he doesn't have a drug problem and is a hard worker. After spending some years finding his way, he gets the package handler job at Amazon and works 70 hours a week during Christmas season. Then he figures Amazon isn't the greatest place to work and gets a job with UPS. He's now 26 and has a route. Beatrice didn't have the easiest of times. She had to drop out of high school to help take car of her younger siblings since her mom Jane is an alcoholic. When she moved in with Bill in his apartment she had some more time and quit her part-time job in the evening after her regular job to finish her GED. Then she took ten weeks off work and got her CNA license and worked a few years while taking classes in the evening. Now she's an RN making $80,000 a year.

Last edited by Malloric; 06-15-2018 at 03:43 PM..
 
Old 06-15-2018, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
4,019 posts, read 1,471,806 times
Reputation: 5406
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
I seriously doubt landlords are "paying off" council people to enact laws. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'm sure your local DA would love to see it, since it's most likely a crime.

I'd also like to see where there is an army of thug cops out just beating the homeless, willy-nilly. Do you have evidence of that as well?
Yes, I do.

Death of Kelly Thomas - Wikipedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
No, you don't get to sleep on the street because taxpayer dollars pay for those streets. And when homeless people are camping, peeing and doing drugs on those streets, those taxpayers are not able to use the very streets they fund.
Case closed. Since you admit that homelessness is not legal, then you don't have a choice not to pay whatever rent is asked. You are a slave. End of story.
 
Old 06-15-2018, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
4,019 posts, read 1,471,806 times
Reputation: 5406
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
If you truly believe in this sort of dichotomy and that the opposing entity is so organized about it all...
then respond in kind: collectivize this underclass of slave labor to demand something or other.

What do you suppose you might get?
Freedom?
 
Old 06-15-2018, 03:42 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,027,668 times
Reputation: 2071
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
No Iím saying someone has to be open even to the possibility of becoming rich or wealthy before it can happen.
Not pretending or faking it .
I canít imagine there are people that donít want to be wealthy or financially independent .

Things are competitive for sure these days . This is why people are looking for different ways .
Or some are deciding they are worth more and creating their own business.
I donít know what field you are in though.

I also donít think people should rely on just one income source ( a job )anymore .
Why not rely on one income when your single or 2 income when your married. Yes if you want to make more money and not have a social life then go work 2-3 full time jobs. Keep doing that till your body breaks down or realize how much of your life your wasting away by making the rich men richer.

Work and life balance is so out of focus because were all trying to keep up with the Jones, becoming greedy people, now then we was 50 years ago.


Simple life = If you work 40 hour full time, then here is your basic bare bones house. No mortgage, rents or anything other then maintenance for the house. Your check pays for the utilities, and other wants such as a car, boat. Is this possible, yes, but will it ever happen No. .Reason is greed.
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