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Old 06-21-2018, 10:37 AM
 
3,447 posts, read 3,516,906 times
Reputation: 3079

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Minimum should just include tips, as it has for 20+ years now.

You make less than a set amount in the day, the restaurant is required to make sure you earned minimum wage.
Wait staff behave more like independent contractors in their earnings.

Employees who are 'commissioned' like Real Estate Agents and Servers/Bartenders are often compensated way out of line for similar work.

Yes, fine wine knowledge and decorum are a different skillset than slinging hash at a Waffle House- but the generic taking of orders, ringing them into a POS, carrying trays/plates, and being customer service oriented are quite similar.

Why should one take home 5x that of the other?

The answer is, they do not. Their base pay is similar- it's the tipped commission that has gotten out of line- and as we increase their base pay, we inadvertently increase their tips too because of higher priced items.

I generally tip 20% but I can see why this would be a significant issue in really high cost areas.
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Renton, WA
579 posts, read 1,105,614 times
Reputation: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Here in Seattle the minimum wage is $15 but people still tip the same as before. That $15 is not a "living" wage here, and is probably not in DC either. Yes, it will cost more to eat out, the restaurants have to make a profit so will pass on the additional labor cost. In some cases we see slower service due to layoffs to make that cost savings.
One of the reasons why I rarely eat out is that the prices at restaurants in the Seattle area is so high. I am old enough to remember when you could get a decent meal in a restaurant for around $10, which is now impossible to do.

I did travel to the greater Cincinnati area for a geocaching congregation in late May, and one of the participants picked me up at the airport in northern Kentucky along with two other people in her SUV. We did stop to eat at a restaurant, and I noted that the prices on the menu appeared to be significantly lower than in the Seattle area. I also ate a restaurant in Ohio, just north of Cincinnati, and I didn't pay as much. Both restaurants were parts of large regional chains that don't have establishments in the Puget Sound region.

Therefore, it appears to me that Kentucky and Ohio are superior to Washington in offering opportunities for people to affordably eat out. I don't understand why these states have negative reputations?
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:21 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
28,400 posts, read 50,602,810 times
Reputation: 28637
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
Minimum should just include tips, as it has for 20+ years now.

You make less than a set amount in the day, the restaurant is required to make sure you earned minimum wage.
Wait staff behave more like independent contractors in their earnings.

Employees who are 'commissioned' like Real Estate Agents and Servers/Bartenders are often compensated way out of line for similar work.

Yes, fine wine knowledge and decorum are a different skillset than slinging hash at a Waffle House- but the generic taking of orders, ringing them into a POS, carrying trays/plates, and being customer service oriented are quite similar.

Why should one take home 5x that of the other?

The answer is, they do not. Their base pay is similar- it's the tipped commission that has gotten out of line- and as we increase their base pay, we inadvertently increase their tips too because of higher priced items.

I generally tip 20% but I can see why this would be a significant issue in really high cost areas.

That's funny, I had the same thought last night.



We decided to go out for a nice seafood dinner along the waterfront at sunset, and the total for the two of us was about $90. I only tipped $10, because I was thinking that the service was not any better than that at a less expensive place. I ordered the wine I wanted, there was no need to have any expertise. It does seem unfair to give the wait person more just because the food prices are higher there so that's my new practice.
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
10,638 posts, read 3,316,997 times
Reputation: 12748
Just something else to think about, waiters/waitresses usually have to give a percentage of their tips to the busser who cleans off the tables for them. Not all have bussers, but in more upscale restaurants they do. So that $10 tip that the above poster gave for a $90 dinner was really only about $7 to the waitress.
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Old 06-21-2018, 02:45 PM
 
553 posts, read 374,382 times
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If that would the case I would still be tipping, but not 20%. maybe around 5% like I do in other countries.

Anyway, never liked the % rule, I don't fell it is proportionate to the service I receive. Soda is cheaper than wine, but soda gets refilled many times, unlike wine. Yet the waiter gets more % tip on the wine... Many times I drink tap water. If I follow blindly the % rule, the waiter would get 0$ for keeping my glass filled.
Same happens with entrees, a plate made with expensive ingredients delivers more tip than a plate of pasta...
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Boise
570 posts, read 527,223 times
Reputation: 1246
Owners will increase prices and have less staff on the floor. That happens every time you decrease or eliminate the tip credit for tipped employees.

Service will suffer as a result of over stretched servers or those who think they don't have to bust their butt anymore to please the guests. Decreased guest satisfaction leads to lower sales and many/most wont make it long term.

Some of the worst service we have received was in Seattle after they eliminated tip credit for servers. There were 3 servers and one hostess for a place that needed twice as many for a busy lunch rush. None of the staff on duty were even trying to keep up. It was a "you'll get it when we feel like it" attitude. Needless to say, we haven't been back.

A professional server or bartender makes a lot more than $15/hour. Last time I worked behind the bar, I could pull in $25/hr or more in tips alone on a typical night.
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:37 PM
 
4,847 posts, read 2,149,409 times
Reputation: 12338
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortgageboss View Post
Owners will increase prices and have less staff on the floor. That happens every time you decrease or eliminate the tip credit for tipped employees.

Service will suffer as a result of over stretched servers or those who think they don't have to bust their butt anymore to please the guests. Decreased guest satisfaction leads to lower sales and many/most wont make it long term.

Some of the worst service we have received was in Seattle after they eliminated tip credit for servers. There were 3 servers and one hostess for a place that needed twice as many for a busy lunch rush. None of the staff on duty were even trying to keep up. It was a "you'll get it when we feel like it" attitude. Needless to say, we haven't been back.

A professional server or bartender makes a lot more than $15/hour. Last time I worked behind the bar, I could pull in $25/hr or more in tips alone on a typical night.
Please refer back to post #14. It explains the methods a boss /owner will use to manipulate the staff and consumers.

The staff has been so instilled with...our customers owe us!!!! Instead of: our employer owes us fair pay.

This reset in the system will upset the rotten apple cart that folks still 'tip' for.
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:45 PM
 
5,445 posts, read 4,398,223 times
Reputation: 14992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highpointer View Post
One of the reasons why I rarely eat out is that the prices at restaurants in the Seattle area is so high. I am old enough to remember when you could get a decent meal in a restaurant for around $10, which is now impossible to do.

I did travel to the greater Cincinnati area for a geocaching congregation in late May, and one of the participants picked me up at the airport in northern Kentucky along with two other people in her SUV. We did stop to eat at a restaurant, and I noted that the prices on the menu appeared to be significantly lower than in the Seattle area. I also ate a restaurant in Ohio, just north of Cincinnati, and I didn't pay as much. Both restaurants were parts of large regional chains that don't have establishments in the Puget Sound region.

Therefore, it appears to me that Kentucky and Ohio are superior to Washington in offering opportunities for people to affordably eat out. I don't understand why these states have negative reputations?
It is simple. Areas that are extremely popular, like Seattle, can command a higher rent. The restaurant you are visiting probably has a much higher overhead than those you visited in Ohio and Kentucky.
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:21 AM
 
3,447 posts, read 3,516,906 times
Reputation: 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by headingtoDenver View Post
It is simple. Areas that are extremely popular, like Seattle, can command a higher rent. The restaurant you are visiting probably has a much higher overhead than those you visited in Ohio and Kentucky.
The issue there is that the disparity in pay continues to grow.

If a Steak Dinner in those places is $12, and the host makes minimum wage ($8) and the bussers make minmum wage ($8) and the server makes serving wage ($4 + 12 an hour in tips) that's that.

Meanwhile in an expensive place like Seattle where the food is twice the cost. The host is making $15, the bussers are making $15 and the server is making $9.47 + 24 an hour, which is well more than double the other staff.

The further you exacerbate the costs, only the server ends up making more.
That's a problem with this fixed system.
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:21 AM
 
10,271 posts, read 6,500,789 times
Reputation: 10847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
I see that they've passed the initiative to raise the wages of tipped workers to the standard minimum wage of $15 an hour by 2025. The burning question I have is thus: Does this mean I need to no longer tip in DC restaurants? I don't live in DC, but other states are considering such measures as well, and it's only a matter of time before this goes nationwide.

If tipped workers are making a "living wage," there's no need to tip them extra, correct? Or if they do insist on being tipped, does that mean restaurant prices won't go any higher? What are people supposed to do in the interim, when wages are going up, but have not reached the $15 level? Tip 10-15% at first and then down to 5% as wages approach the $15 level?

One thing is 100% for certain. If restaurant prices go up, AND I'm required to tip, I will NOT eat out. Ever. I refuse to pay twice. I sure hope restaurant owners know this. I'm perfectly content to eat my own cooking for the rest of my days if this "double charging" comes to past.

How do others feel about this?
Tipped servers are guaranteed a minimum wage now and only earn about $2 an hour from pay. Their sales are calculated and if they don't make a minimum wage in that 40 hour week or whatever the system is they are entitled to be paid for it. It never happens so it's not an issue with the current minimum wage so low, but yes you will still have to tip or prices will have to go up.
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