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Old 06-29-2018, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
20,957 posts, read 15,275,811 times
Reputation: 23737

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I really don't care what others make. What Bezos drags in means nothing to my daily life.

With that said, I care about my own life. If my cost of living is rising, wages dropping, medical insurance skyrocketing, etc. I'm going to be upset.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,886 posts, read 8,867,123 times
Reputation: 18290
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
Given the state of wage stagnation, skyrocketing healthcare costs, property taxes, tuition for public university coupled with an increasingly 'business-friendly' climate in Washington, quality of life for the American middle class is rapidly declining. You can attempt to claw yourself into the upper-middle class, an increasingly difficult task these days given that education is also being held hostage by corporate interests. We dump six figures of debt on American public college graduates and then ask them to compete for the same wages as graduates from other developed countries who have a much more robust public education system and no debt burden, then deride them as 'snoflakes' for speaking up about it. 'Pull yourself up by your bootstraps' has become the tone-deaf rallying cry of an increasingly out-of-touch Washington, more interested in preserving corporate interests and campaign donations than the education or well being of the citizens.

Most Americans are a single chronic illness away from bankruptcy. Conversely, treatment for that same illness in every other developed country carries no such risk. Millennials are derided for having fewer or no children, but no one wants to talk about how it costs 10s of thousands of dollars out of pocket in hospital fees for an uncomplicated childbirth, a problem no other Western nation faces. Our failure is that most people waste time blaming the individual, while turning a blind eye to the system that propagates these injustices.

At the end of the day, what defines developed country? A large military, abundance of corporate headquarters? Presence of wealthy private landowners? Then congratulations, America is developed. If, however, the measure of development is the rate of economic mobility, access to affordable education, healthcare, social services, ability to 'survive' in the middle class, then not only do we fail, we fall below the level of even many third-world nations. Unfortunately, the past few decades have shown that our own Nationalistic arrogance will continually prevent us from advancing, until it becomes our undoing.

/end rant
Not a rant. I think you're right on target. The most important rescource this nation has is its people. Regardless of why some of our people don't contribute to making this country better, it's also the nation's loss when we don't bring people along. A rising tide lifts all boats...so until we start lifting up all people, the tide of this nation will continue to stagnate.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
6,940 posts, read 7,658,930 times
Reputation: 17837
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
This government is. I don't see the governments of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Belgium, Netherlands, Canada, or even Germany in that way.
If you like EU socialism so well, go visit those countries. Become an ex-pat, if you wish.

Some people just don't realize how good we really have it here. Sometimes, they just have to leave and live where they think it's so great. Later, they will be glad they can come back here.

Why are all the Latin American masses risking life and limb to cross our southern border illegally?? Surely, not because they think this nation is a pox on the planet. Far from it.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,886 posts, read 8,867,123 times
Reputation: 18290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodpete View Post
What other country has generations on welfare like the US ? Many families don't even look for a job, just automatically go on the dole for life.
Yes, you're right there are generations of certain families who are and have been on welfare.
But, to answer your question, in many other countries those families would just remain in total poverty.
And which states have the most need of welfare? 9 out of the 10 states with the worst levels of poverty are _______________ states.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:56 PM
 
3,293 posts, read 1,730,193 times
Reputation: 3651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
If you like EU socialism so well, go visit those countries. Become an ex-pat, if you wish.

Some people just don't realize how good we really have it here. Sometimes, they just have to leave and live where they think it's so great. Later, they will be glad they can come back here.

Why are all the Latin American masses risking life and limb to cross our southern border illegally?? Surely, not because they think this nation is a pox on the planet. Far from it.
Visiting democratic socialist countries won't confer to someone the benefits of democratic socialism. The benefits of that system are things like universal healthcare and paid maternity leave. Going there on vacation wouldn't let one "enjoy" those benefits.

I don't think you can disprove the value of European democratic socialism by pointing to people from poor latin American countries leaving those countries.
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Old 06-29-2018, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Central IL
13,356 posts, read 7,121,412 times
Reputation: 31053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
If you like EU socialism so well, go visit those countries. Become an ex-pat, if you wish.

Some people just don't realize how good we really have it here. Sometimes, they just have to leave and live where they think it's so great. Later, they will be glad they can come back here.

Why are all the Latin American masses risking life and limb to cross our southern border illegally?? Surely, not because they think this nation is a pox on the planet. Far from it.
Why is the answer to LEAVE?

No one is asking for everyone to have the same income of $75k but the GINI coefficient trendline shows what is going on and how we compare to other developed countries. Our priorities are out of whack and the pendulum needs to swing back.
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Old 06-29-2018, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,677 posts, read 9,425,981 times
Reputation: 14930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Cleric View Post
"We" have no choice in the matter. Government is responsive to the wants of corporations and the wealthy, not commoners.
Corporation's largest shareholders are public sector union pension funds, private sector union pension funds, 401Ks, IRAs and personal savings & investments.
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Old 06-29-2018, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,886 posts, read 8,867,123 times
Reputation: 18290
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Corporation's largest shareholders are public sector union pension funds, private sector union pension funds, 401Ks, IRAs and personal savings & investments.
That says nothing about the corporations. All that says is about financial investment by pension funds.
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Old 06-29-2018, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,677 posts, read 9,425,981 times
Reputation: 14930
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
Given the state of wage stagnation, skyrocketing healthcare costs,
Total compensation has been increasing. Wages are only one slice of t-comp; as t-comp has risen fast, wages have been a smaller slice of the pie. Employer-paid healthcare is going up much faster than inflation, which is why wages are not going up more quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
property taxes
Property taxes are being driven by the huge underfunded public sector pension system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
tuition for public university
Students have not been paying the true cost for decades. It is high time they paid the true cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
coupled with an increasingly 'business-friendly' climate in Washington,
thank goodness!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
quality of life for the American middle class is rapidly declining.
The percentage of Americans in the middle and upper class has been increasing nicely. The percentage of Americans in the lower class has been shrinking nicely. The quality of life for all is increasing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
You can attempt to claw yourself into the upper-middle class, an increasingly difficult task these days
Untrue, of course. The percentage of affluent families is increasing.

[quote=vladlensky;52345932] given that education is also being held hostage by corporate interests.

Please count the number of letters in the word "corporate." Notice it is not a 4-letter word. Corporations have been the greatest source of economic progress mankind has ever invented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
Most Americans are a single chronic illness away from bankruptcy.
Untrue, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
Millennials are derided for having fewer or no children
Untrue, of course.

Last edited by toosie; 06-30-2018 at 12:36 PM.. Reason: Deleted gratuitous sniping
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Old 06-29-2018, 05:17 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 1,288,224 times
Reputation: 2982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
This government is. I don't see the governments of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Belgium, Netherlands, Canada, or even Germany in that way.
I would blame campaign finance laws or a lack thereof for our issues in that regard. And we are a lot bigger. The countries you mentioned compare more to one of our states. That is why comparing America to a small country is apples and oranges. If you look at our GPD compared to the UK or France we are doing much better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
There is a backlash coming I think. The Millenials are quite fond of socialism, a very large percentage harbor a venomous hatred for capitalism. They will be voting for awhile. They almost elected one of the more unelectable candidates we have ran in some time. Actually Sanders would likely be our president if the DNC didn't corrupt the process.
I agree Sanders would have won in 2016. It was an open election. In 2020 if the democrats nominate a socialist type candidate who wants to raise taxes and create this massive social welfare state Trump will trounce them. He has the power of the oval office to dictate policy to benefit himself for reelection. Whether it be starting a war or whatever he thinks he needs to do. Just look back to Bush 1 and Desert Storm. 91% approval rating. Trump only needs a few week boost to landslide into another 4 years.

Last edited by toosie; 06-30-2018 at 12:38 PM.. Reason: Deleted orphaned response to deleted post
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