America has unprecedented amounts of income disparity in a developed country. (taxable, millionaire)
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If you can't see a difference, it's because you've never been outside the US.
I've spent 30 days or more in Norway, Denmark, Britain, Belgium, France, the Netherlands, Germany, including East Germany (under communism), Romania (both before and after communism), Czechoslovakia (when it was communist), Slovakia, Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey, Egypt, Burkina Faso, Kuwait, Iraq, Honduras, Panama and Thailand.
In Burkina Faso, I was on a mountain-top with several villages that were isolated, because the bridge that was their life-line with other villages on neighboring mountains had washed out, so they were unable to trade for food or clothing.
That's right, they didn't have money.
They didn't have electricity or running water, either, so they used out-houses, and it was a 45-50 minute walk to the river (depending on how slippery the trail was) to get water, several times a day.
They didn't have a school, either. They used a lean-to, and the "teacher" had only one year of university training, not in teaching, and no teaching degree or any degree at all, but she was very intelligent. She was trapped there when the bridge washed out, so she came round 2 days a week or 3 days a week, for about half a day.
All the children could read and write their language, plus the language of another tribe (Mossi), plus French and English, which makes them a helluva lot smarter than the vast majority of American children, who can barely read and write English. When the teacher wasn't there, I taught them more English, and we did science experiments with water, so they could understand the forces that washed out the bridge.
The point being, it doesn't take a lot of money to educate kids, but it does require parents who instill the value of education in their children. In America, families in "poverty" (snicker) don't give a damn if their kids go to school or not, and don't encourage them to study.
That's part of the socio-cultural thing.
I took a 2nd shift supervisor position at a meat-packing plant, while I was going to college full-time. 7 of the 8 line leaders were from Senegal or Ghana (and the 8th was a White guy). The Black Americans wouldn't have anything to do with them. They ostracized them, refusing to sit at their tables in the break-room, and they would say nasty thing about them, while constantly complaining that they should be the line-leaders. Well, you need to be able to read and write English, and do math to fill out the production reports, which the Senegalese and the Ghanaians could do, but the Black Americans couldn't. And the packaging machines were made in Germany, so if you restarted the machine, the default computer screen was in German, which the Senegalese and Ghanaians could read, but the Black Americans couldn't, and worse than that, couldn't figure out how to use the touch screens to switch the commands to the English language.
Instead of constantly debasing and denigrating the guys from Senegal and Ghana, and constantly whining about poor treatment, because they can't run the big machines, the Black Americans should have made them role models and attempted to emulate them.
And in any other culture, they would, but not in America, because it's a different socio-culture.
What did you do to travel to so many places like that for such long periods of time?
America has provided great opportunities for success and many have succeeded very well indeed. Those opportunities and successes are the reasons for the "disparity". There plenty of places without those opportunities and the lesser disparity.
This may not be such a problem if some of the people in other countries would step it up a bit, but when all of the greatest technological innovations as far as brand marketing is concerned of recent memory have come from the United States, well, that's where the wealth is going to flow. We should be talking about what makes a country of 300 million people the world leader in innovation and marketing those innovations and why does every great new piece of technology always come from the US? Why isn't there a European smart phone that's better than the iPhone or Android? Why isn't there a European Facebook that's better than our Facebook? Why is a continent that the left so idolizes so bankrupt when it comes to actual products for sale outside of a few cars, their economies are weak, their technology is read about in a lab, and really any sort of progress whatsoever seems destined for other countries to pounce upon? The left points to their "progress" as people being subsidized for not working, subsidized for having kids and getting long paternal and maternal leaves, subsidized for housing, and basically it's such a great place to live for handouts. What has that given the world though? Why am I not using anything at present that was developed in Europe? Sure, maybe the initial IDEA was made by a European, but what happened to that?! Why are all computers made by American companies? Like literally nothing comes to mind that ships from Europe and that we all use. Yet every day I use TVs made in Asia or developed in North America, or video game consoles built by innovative Asian or North American companies. Why am I using all Asian and North American devices and technology? What is wrong with Europe that their great education systems and amazing social programs aren't producing much of anything that benefits the world? It's nice they're all able to work only 29 hours a week and get 5 months of vacation a year, but it's rather obvious it's a civilization in decline as they can't make a movie worth watching, despite dominating the film industry before World War II, they can't make a product worth using, and the biggest thing I can even think about that is European is IKEA, cheap, disposable furniture for college kids. Yay, what an innovation.
People love to point to things like the steam engine, the automobile, the computer, "All European." Well why are we not all using some form of European computer, then? Because AMERICAN companies understand how to market and innovate when it comes to actual products. Thus it shouldn't be a huge surprise that American entrepreneurs are going to get rich doing that, because the entire world is buying our products, watching our movies, and looking up to our culture. Nobody sits around in America wishing they could use a French tablet, immerse themselves in French filmmaking, and be like the French. It's a world economy now, so it stands to reason that the innovators and the drivers of the biggest companies that sell the most goods and products worldwide are also going to be the richest people.
I think we all know there are tons of smart people in Europe, but their work ethic doesn't compare to American work ethic on any level. You have countries where the average amount of work per week is incredibly low, their unemployment rates are high, and any sense that you might benefit from the results of your innovation is squashed by high taxes and burdensome regulations, so who can blame them for not working harder?! That is not a society I would want to live in. If having bigger winners also means having bigger losers, then sign me up! A society shouldn't be judged by how many people are exactly mediocre, but how many people are GREAT. History itself is a story of great individuals doing great things, it certainly isn't told about a bunch of mediocre faceless nobodies just sort of existing peaceably enough. "Well yay, our country has no homeless people and everyone is educated, everyone has a basic contented existence." Alright, so what though? If that country doesn't have any great achievements, then I don't care if everyone is fed, clothed, has housing, and has their basic needs met. I would value a society much more highly where the possibility for greatness to arise is the strongest, and that society looks like the US it doesn't look like Europe. Europe is the past, and I worry the US is the present, with Asia being the future. I hope I'm wrong, but the more some people want to make us into Europe, the more this country won't be able to keep up with China or even Japan.
The Nobel Peace Prize would be more appropriate. Corporations have been the greatest force for good invented by mankind.
That depends very much on the corporation. Some corporations have been very helpful, others have committed manslaughter and even premeditated murder. Not all of them are Bell Labs or Xerox, some are Peabody Coal.
I am always amazed when those that cry that the " rich aren't paying their fair share" see nothing wrong when they receive a tax refund check that is over TWICE the taxes they actually paid.
I am always amazed when those that cry that the " rich aren't paying their fair share" see nothing wrong when they receive a tax refund check that is over TWICE the taxes they actually paid.
...THAT...is " not paying your fair share " !
Ah, yes. The old "fair share" gobbledygook.
It brings to mind the old story, author unknown, of how to explain the income tax system using Beer.
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the highest income) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.” Drinks for the ten now cost just $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men– the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!”
“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
This may not be such a problem if some of the people in other countries would step it up a bit, but when all of the greatest technological innovations as far as brand marketing is concerned of recent memory have come from the United States, well, that's where the wealth is going to flow. We should be talking about what makes a country of 300 million people the world leader in innovation and marketing those innovations and why does every great new piece of technology always come from the US? Why isn't there a European smart phone that's better than the iPhone or Android? Why isn't there a European Facebook that's better than our Facebook? Why is a continent that the left so idolizes so bankrupt when it comes to actual products for sale outside of a few cars, their economies are weak, their technology is read about in a lab, and really any sort of progress whatsoever seems destined for other countries to pounce upon? The left points to their "progress" as people being subsidized for not working, subsidized for having kids and getting long paternal and maternal leaves, subsidized for housing, and basically it's such a great place to live for handouts. What has that given the world though? Why am I not using anything at present that was developed in Europe? Sure, maybe the initial IDEA was made by a European, but what happened to that?! Why are all computers made by American companies? Like literally nothing comes to mind that ships from Europe and that we all use. Yet every day I use TVs made in Asia or developed in North America, or video game consoles built by innovative Asian or North American companies. Why am I using all Asian and North American devices and technology? What is wrong with Europe that their great education systems and amazing social programs aren't producing much of anything that benefits the world? It's nice they're all able to work only 29 hours a week and get 5 months of vacation a year, but it's rather obvious it's a civilization in decline as they can't make a movie worth watching, despite dominating the film industry before World War II, they can't make a product worth using, and the biggest thing I can even think about that is European is IKEA, cheap, disposable furniture for college kids. Yay, what an innovation.
People love to point to things like the steam engine, the automobile, the computer, "All European." Well why are we not all using some form of European computer, then? Because AMERICAN companies understand how to market and innovate when it comes to actual products. Thus it shouldn't be a huge surprise that American entrepreneurs are going to get rich doing that, because the entire world is buying our products, watching our movies, and looking up to our culture. Nobody sits around in America wishing they could use a French tablet, immerse themselves in French filmmaking, and be like the French. It's a world economy now, so it stands to reason that the innovators and the drivers of the biggest companies that sell the most goods and products worldwide are also going to be the richest people.
I think we all know there are tons of smart people in Europe, but their work ethic doesn't compare to American work ethic on any level. You have countries where the average amount of work per week is incredibly low, their unemployment rates are high, and any sense that you might benefit from the results of your innovation is squashed by high taxes and burdensome regulations, so who can blame them for not working harder?! That is not a society I would want to live in. If having bigger winners also means having bigger losers, then sign me up! A society shouldn't be judged by how many people are exactly mediocre, but how many people are GREAT. History itself is a story of great individuals doing great things, it certainly isn't told about a bunch of mediocre faceless nobodies just sort of existing peaceably enough. "Well yay, our country has no homeless people and everyone is educated, everyone has a basic contented existence." Alright, so what though? If that country doesn't have any great achievements, then I don't care if everyone is fed, clothed, has housing, and has their basic needs met. I would value a society much more highly where the possibility for greatness to arise is the strongest, and that society looks like the US it doesn't look like Europe. Europe is the past, and I worry the US is the present, with Asia being the future. I hope I'm wrong, but the more some people want to make us into Europe, the more this country won't be able to keep up with China or even Japan.
I think that most people that think this way have always been relatively well off in America and don't know what it's like to have to live in an area full of criminals and generally uneducated people.
I'd rather live in a place where everyone is clothed,fed and educated therefore not having to resort to crime as a means of survival, than to live in a country where I constantly have to be on edge because I never know when I could potentially be a victim of crime and where I have to hustle just to survive just to say I live in the country where "all the best stuff comes from" to me that's kind of a backwards mentality.
Americans might not realize it now but when average middle-class people have to fear that their kids might be kidnapped and held for ransom at any point then they'll realize that treating your poorer classes like garbage and not giving them access to education probably isn't the best idea.
...The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
It’s a didactically-useful story, good for trotting out every few months, lest we forget. But it has some glaring flaws.
The real tension isn’t between the poorer men and the 10th man; it’s between the 9th and the 10th. The 9th is frustrated that the other eight lump him in their barbs and envy with the 10th. But the 10th is vastly richer than him; the 9th thinks of himself as being more properly among the lower-8. The 10th meanwhile doesn’t seriously fear competition from the lower-8, but the 9th is a potential threat. So, says the 9th, the 10th lobbies the government to pass laws that are especially burdensome on precisely the 9th (and not those above or below), so that the 9th is kept in his place, lest be become a successful parvenu, and supplant the 10th. Going further, the lower-8 hate the 9th, as a member of the “elite”, whereas the 10th is sufficiently out of sight as to become an abstraction, a mythical hero of personal spunk and verve. The lower-8 dream of one day becoming like the 10th, whereas to them, the 9th is a stuffy and bumbling coattail-rider, who benefited from the system’s largess, instead of his personal genius.
In practice, the 9th man has little recourse. He depends on his law-practice, or his professorship, or his position as a junior executive at an engineering-firm, or a bank. He can’t just abscond to some overseas haven, like the 10th conceivably could. Even if the other 8 beat him up, he has no choice, but to keep showing up at the bar.
It’s a didactically-useful story, good for trotting out every few months, lest we forget. But it has some glaring flaws.
The real tension isn’t between the poorer men and the 10th man; it’s between the 9th and the 10th. The 9th is frustrated that the other eight lump him in their barbs and envy with the 10th. But the 10th is vastly richer than him; the 9th thinks of himself as being more properly among the lower-8. The 10th meanwhile doesn’t seriously fear competition from the lower-8, but the 9th is a potential threat. So, says the 9th, the 10th lobbies the government to pass laws that are especially burdensome on precisely the 9th (and not those above or below), so that the 9th is kept in his place, lest be become a successful parvenu, and supplant the 10th. Going further, the lower-8 hate the 9th, as a member of the “elite”, whereas the 10th is sufficiently out of sight as to become an abstraction, a mythical hero of personal spunk and verve. The lower-8 dream of one day becoming like the 10th, whereas to them, the 9th is a stuffy and bumbling coattail-rider, who benefited from the system’s largess, instead of his personal genius.
In practice, the 9th man has little recourse. He depends on his law-practice, or his professorship, or his position as a junior executive at an engineering-firm, or a bank. He can’t just abscond to some overseas haven, like the 10th conceivably could. Even if the other 8 beat him up, he has no choice, but to keep showing up at the bar.
It is always interesting when progressives talk about raising taxes on "Millionaires & Billionaire," but when the tax increase goes through, it magically applies to people who make $85K and above - perhaps man #7 above are caught.
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