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Old 07-01-2018, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,878 posts, read 9,564,353 times
Reputation: 15272

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
lol, the reason for the Trump vote was Hillary Clinton, the rest is gibberish.
That reminds me of a stand-up comic's routine.

"I know why Trump was elected," he said, "He was elected because he was the only guy in the race."
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:51 AM
 
Location: New Yawk
8,667 posts, read 4,830,071 times
Reputation: 14034
About 6 years ago, my husband and I really hit the skids, financially. Prior to that, we thought we’re doing everything right: lived frugally and below our means, stayed out of debt, slowly but diligently we’re savibg for a home. Then a run of catastrophes hit us all at once: husband was layed off (and did not qualify for unemployment), one of our children had a catastrophic health issue, and our rent skyrocketed as a side effect of the real estate bubble bursting. It took 6 months for my husband to find work (at a considerable pay cut) and another month until he saw a paycheck. During that time we lived off of our savings; the only public assistance we applied for were WIC, Medicaid, and free lunch at school. The only money coming in was from sporadic contract work. By the time he collected his first pay check, there was nothing left in savings because we had to put a very large security deposit on a smaller, cheaper apartment.

As hard as that was, the next couple of years were worse. Scrimping and sacrificing to get back to where we were was a very long uphill battle, as we were worse off financially when we got to the point of no longer qualifying for WIC and free lunch, and no longer needed Medicaid because my husband’s job offered health benefits. It really hit home three years ago, the first time we didn’t get EIC on out tax returns. So yeah, it was really hard to be at a working class income level, living worse off than people we knew who lived off of government assistance and had substance abuse issues. What the **** were we working for?

However, the past two years are when we have started to come out the other side and see fruits our labor. And mix our metaphors. We both have good jobs now, excellent benefits that have covered almost all of our older son’s health and developmental issues), have managed to save enough to buy a home soon, have college savings for the kids, and can look forward to a comfortable retirement. We wouldn’t have any of that if we had given up and lived on government assistance. Sure, we could have had more material stuff (like a nicer car, vacations, etc), but all of that is fleeting. I guess that’s my one real qualm with this new level of income “equity”: while I am grateful to live in a progressive state with these safety nets, I have experienced how it disincentiveizes working on the books and saving to get yourself off of assistance. It takes a lot of determination, even more so for those who grew up in generational welfare.

Last edited by Ginge McFantaPants; 07-01-2018 at 09:27 AM..
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,878 posts, read 9,564,353 times
Reputation: 15272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
Wage stagnation began to some degree in the 1980's but really became apparent after 2000, including the two terms of Pres. GW Bush, so this isn't isolated to one presidency. In fact if you look at census data from 2000-2010 (during most of which GW Bush was in office), it is not uncommon in community after community to see 2010 real wages (unadjusted for inflation) be almost flat when compared against 2000. And of course, cost of living didn't stay flat in this decade.
That's a good point.

At the same time, total compensation has gone up much faster than wages. Wages are the largest slice of the total compensation pie, but employer-paid health insurance has been increasing rapidly over the past 20 years. What is happening is that employers are directing compensation increases into increasing health insurance premiums rather than into wages, and employees are better off for it, as health insurance is funded with pre-tax dollars.

In the past several years, with the economy booming and employment going up, we still are not seeing much evidence of broad-based wage inflation. Most economists point to formerly discouraged workers coming back into the workforce. At some point, we will see wage inflation.
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,878 posts, read 9,564,353 times
Reputation: 15272
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Just don't confuse Econ 101 or economics as a whole with reality.
Or maybe just read some Maslow.
This is the Economics forum, not the Psychology forum.
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:03 AM
 
11,826 posts, read 16,569,439 times
Reputation: 16778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
Well, yeah actually, ya do. But your life is so far away from that you can’t understand anyone else’s reality. One yacht is up in the Pacific Northwest, one is in Cabo, those are 2,000 miles apart. He vacations to Cabo where he has a house so how exactly would you have one yacht if you wanted to use them in each place? You wouldn’t. Not to mention if you have the money what does it matter?! My dad has massive charitable contributions setup not only as he lives but when he’s gone. The company will continue and that company will donate more in one year to charity each year he’s dead than you will in your entire life. So again, what business is it what other people do with their money? Especially when those people have provided great incomes to thousands of people, made dozens of people millions of dollars, and started charities, contributed to other charities, educational foundations, and made the world a better place?

For all of the resentment of some poor people, it’s amazing they never stop to think those “evil greedy rich people” have made a million times the contribution to this world than a thousand whiny losers who refuse to work hard and instead would prefer to complain about how “it’s not fair.” Life isn’t fair, but if you sit around and complain rather than work hard you’ll never get anywhere.
Now we know about dad - how about you?
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:07 AM
 
8,254 posts, read 4,526,059 times
Reputation: 8838
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
My dad has a yacht, two actually right now, but he started life with $0 and built his business empire over the past 40 years. He deserves every luxury that he can afford. He worked for it.
i got a friend that made great money in the last ten years and yes, he has seven boat, one being a 77 footer, so yes I think he deserves it
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,878 posts, read 9,564,353 times
Reputation: 15272
Quote:
Originally Posted by homelessinseattle View Post
Some people just get tired of seeing two people living in an in-your-face mcmansion.
How does that footprint help the economy?
Is that a serious question?

Well, let's see...

It helped employ the land surveyors.
It helped the architects who designed the building.
It helped the structural engineers who designed the structural details.
It helped the mechanical engineers who designed the HVAC systems to adhere or exceed energy efficiency standards.
It helped employ the building department who checked all the building plans.
It helped the operating engineers who cleared the land.
It helped the employees at Caterpillar who built the earthmoving equipment.
It helped the concrete workers who formed & poured the foundation and driveway.
It helped the truss company engineers and employees who designed & built the trusses.
It helped the carpenters who framed the structure.
It helped the masons who laid brick.
It helped the plumbers who plumbed the structure.
It helped the electricians who wired the structure.
It helped the HVAC techs who installed ducts in the structure.
It helped the sheetrockers who installed drywall.
It helped the carpet installers.
It helped the tile installers.
It helped the cabinetry makers.
It helped the painters.
It helped the home automation installers.
It helped the garage door installers.
It helped the landscape architect.
It helped the landscape contractors.

I could go on for another page or two, but you should get the idea...
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,878 posts, read 9,564,353 times
Reputation: 15272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginge McFantaPants View Post
About 6 years ago, my husband and I really hit the skids, financially. Prior to that, we thought we’re doing everything right: lived frugally and below our means, stayed out of debt, slowly but diligently we’re savibg for a home. Then a run of catastrophes hit us all at once: husband was layed off (and did not qualify for unemployment), one of our children had a catastrophic health issue, and our rent skyrocketed as a side effect of the real estate bubble bursting. It took 6 months for my husband to find work (at a considerable pay cut) and another month until he saw a patch. During that time we lived off of our savings; the only public assistance we applied for were WIC, Medicaid, and free lunch at school. The only money coming in was from sporadic contract work. By the time he collected his first pay check, there was nothing left in savings because we had to put a very large security deposit on a smaller, cheaper apartment.

As hard as that was, the next couple of years were worse. Scrimping and sacrificing to get back to where we were was a very long uphill battle, as we were worse off financially when we got to the point of no longer qualifying for WIC and free lunch, and no longer needed Medicaid because my husband’s job offered health benefits. It really hit home three years ago, the first time we didn’t get EIC on out tax returns. So yeah, it was really hard to be at a working class income level, living worse off than people we knew who lived off of government assistance and had substance abuse issues. What the **** were we working for?

However, the past two years are when we have started to come out the other side and see fruits our labor. And mix our metaphors. We both have good jobs now, excellent benefits that have covered almost all of our older son’s health and developmental issues), have managed to save enough to buy a home soon, have college savings for the kids, and can look forward to a comfortable retirement. We wouldn’t have any of that if we had given up and lived on government assistance. Sure, we could have had more material stuff (like a nicer car, vacations, etc), but all of that is fleeting. I guess that’s my one real qualm with this new level of income “equity”: while I am grateful to live in a progressive state with these safety nets, I have experienced how it disincentiveizes working on the books and saving to get yourself off of assistance. It takes a lot of determination, even more so for those who grew up in generational welfare.
Wow. So sorry you had to go through all that. I'm glad to hear things have turned up for you, and I wish you good fortune going forward.
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Surfside Beach, SC
1,859 posts, read 2,439,371 times
Reputation: 3223
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
I think absolutely taxes are a disincentive to work hard because they make it incrementally more difficult to amass wealth. I mean when my passive income gets taxed, somehow I still feel better about it than when I'm losing money on hours of work I put into actually working. There's a difference, one of the revenue streams I sat on my butt and money flowed in, yay, and if I pay some taxes, well that stinks still, but it's less soul-crushing. When you actually work hard and at the end of the day there's a bunch of money gone from your paycheck, it's not exactly motivating. Especially because I don't think the average person can see the value of their tax dollars. There are WAY too many programs and bureaus for absolutely everything. Imagine the smallest little thing and someone created a government organization to deal with it.

I want to know what ever happened to the Fair Tax that both republicans and democrats had talked about. I don't care if 200,000 IRS workers would lose their jobs, GOOD! The tax system is way too complex. Reduce taxes but close all of the loopholes so that everyone pays something who makes above X amount of money or whatever, I'm ok with losing loophole advantages if the rate goes down and you can just do the math on what you're going to make. Having a huge bureaucracy to deal with complex taxes is a huge headache. That's why sales taxes are so great overall, they are just collected and remitted pretty much electronically. Sure, you may need a couple of people to make sure businesses are sending in their taxes, I guess, but it's not that complicated.
This is exactly why I think we should go to a VAT system. And yes, your dad absolutely deserves to have his two yachts and whatever else he chooses to spend his hard earned money on. I say, "Good for him!"
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,878 posts, read 9,564,353 times
Reputation: 15272
Quote:
Originally Posted by homelessinseattle View Post
Some people just get tired of seeing two people living in an in-your-face mcmansion.
Oh - one more thing. You're using the word "McMansion" as if it were a synonym for "large house." It isn't. It might be a large house, or not - but the defining characteristics of a McMansion is its bad architectural features - frequently discordant, lacking in proportion, mixing styles for no reason, etc.

If you're interested, head on over to the Architecture forum.
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