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Old 07-16-2018, 08:23 AM
 
Location: N of citrus, S of decent corn
34,581 posts, read 42,741,316 times
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My question is more economic than political, although itís sort of both.

If we in the US operate under a free market system, why should we object that Germany is getting their natural gas from Russia, if that is their most cost effective option?

I understand why we donít want Germany to support Russia economically, while we spend billions to protect them from Russia.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:39 AM
 
12,676 posts, read 12,085,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
If we in the US operate under a free market system, why should we object that Germany is getting their natural gas from Russia, if that is their most cost effective option?
Neocons love getting into everyone's business, while acting offended if anyone gets into ours. Also a laughably poor push to try to get the markets to purchase our much much higher priced energy, thus putting places like Germany under the thumb of the US so they can threaten them, like they did with other countries over the breast feeding thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
I understand why we donít want Germany to support Russia economically, while we spend billions to protect them from Russia.
We trade with China, yet spend billions on defense to counter China. We pay Russia to send our people to space.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:55 AM
 
7,008 posts, read 6,638,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
My question is more economic than political, although it’s sort of both.

If we in the US operate under a free market system, why should we object that Germany is getting their natural gas from Russia, if that is their most cost effective option?

I understand why we don’t want Germany to support Russia economically, while we spend billions to protect them from Russia.
US gas is uneconomical despite much of it being excess gas associated with oil fracking wells; i.e., the cost of extraction is free. It costs the EU consumer roughly 60 percent more for the US gas since it has be shipped in the form of liquified natural gas and converted back to gas for distribution to consumers.

So the US is resorting to political means to try to force excess natural gas on the EU (and weapon systems as well by demanding more military expenditures per GDP).

Germany has been importing natural gas from Russia before the breakup of the Soviet Union. In nearly 30 years, the imports are about 30 percent higher.

What the US spends on military procurement has no relationship to anything. A lot of it is dependent on internal US politics and the strong political lobbying by private industry to spend more. Half of all spending in the budget is now procured from the private sector.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:09 AM
 
Location: NJ
22,690 posts, read 28,576,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
My question is more economic than political, although itís sort of both.

If we in the US operate under a free market system, why should we object that Germany is getting their natural gas from Russia, if that is their most cost effective option?

I understand why we donít want Germany to support Russia economically, while we spend billions to protect them from Russia.
the US government doesnt perceive military spending as a negative. so dont worry about that.

it seems more like some kind of corporatist corruption than anything with legitimate political considerations.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:27 AM
 
11,711 posts, read 16,457,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
My question is more economic than political, although itís sort of both.

If we in the US operate under a free market system, why should we object that Germany is getting their natural gas from Russia, if that is their most cost effective option?

I understand why we donít want Germany to support Russia economically, while we spend billions to protect them from Russia.
Read up on the actual Nato agreements.
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:17 PM
 
7,008 posts, read 6,638,516 times
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Under Obama, they agreed to 2% by 2025. Today, they moved it up a year.

https://www.rollcall.com/news/politi...-s-contractors

Their government have been in austerity mode for five or more years to meet the 3 percent deficit goal under the Maastricht treaty.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:50 PM
 
5,066 posts, read 3,333,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
US gas is uneconomical despite much of it being excess gas associated with oil fracking wells; i.e., the cost of extraction is free. It costs the EU consumer roughly 60 percent more for the US gas since it has be shipped in the form of liquified natural gas and converted back to gas for distribution to consumers.

So the US is resorting to political means to try to force excess natural gas on the EU (and weapon systems as well by demanding more military expenditures per GDP).

Germany has been importing natural gas from Russia before the breakup of the Soviet Union. In nearly 30 years, the imports are about 30 percent higher.

What the US spends on military procurement has no relationship to anything. A lot of it is dependent on internal US politics and the strong political lobbying by private industry to spend more. Half of all spending in the budget is now procured from the private sector.
It's not even a matter of costs, the infrastructure isn't even really in place port wise.

They're currently building that infrastructure, as we are also expanding our ability to export it, but it's still years away from being there.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:34 PM
509
 
2,545 posts, read 3,748,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
My question is more economic than political, although itís sort of both.

If we in the US operate under a free market system, why should we object that Germany is getting their natural gas from Russia, if that is their most cost effective option?

I understand why we donít want Germany to support Russia economically, while we spend billions to protect them from Russia.
One of the pivotal battles of the Cold War was the natural gas pipeline from the Soviet Union to Europe. Reagan went all in to stop it. The pipeline would have provided the Soviets with enough foreign currency to stave off their collapse.

The proposed pipeline would provide the Russian Federation with foreign currency that would allow Putin to increase military spending, etc.

In the end, countries have different economic systems. BUT what they have in common is the desire to survive in a world that is still pretty hostile and that Trumps economics systems.
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