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Old 08-13-2018, 07:50 PM
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,880 posts, read 5,078,474 times
Reputation: 3020


Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
"Supply and Demand" Makes me laugh.

The blame for the eCONomic mess lies with a money drought, which is contrary to the belief that inflation is caused by “too much money chasing too few goods.” According to the federal reserve dot gov site, there’s only 1.4 trillion dollar bills in circulation versus a 3.9 trillion federal budget. It takes a monstrous velocity of money passing from hand to hand to support that kind of government spending - and - a gross domestic product of 19+ trillion.
When folks don’t have discretionary funds, they won’t spend what little they have on anything but necessities.
A few comments.

Why compare money in circulation to the budget deficit? I do not see the point. If you are going to compare, why not choose a broader definition of money, say M2, which is at $14.1T? But even so, I do not see the point.

Money velocity sits well below where it was 60 years ago using M2 and where it was in 1972 using M1. But relating velocity to the Federal budget does not have any economic meaning.

More interesting would compare the interest payments the debt as a percentage of GDP. these are approximately where they were in 1945.

For the country as a whole, there is no "economic mess." Of course, this is not to say many are not having trouble managing their own household affairs.

Are eCONomists shills and apologists?

Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
In my humble opinion, Academia churns out idiots, shills and apologists for the Powers That Be.
Name a few and we can discuss them here on CD.

Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
First, eCONomics is a dismal science,using a variable (money) as their unit of measure.
The origin of the dismal science was its reputation in the 19th century for tackling dismal topics.

As for money as the unit of measure, this is incorrect. A variety of measures are used. Money however is often used as a proxy since it is quantifiable. Sometimes, the convenience is costless, other times, it skews the results.

Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Second, by apologizing for usury, the abomination, which is not only proscribed for 3500+ years, but is mathematically unsustainable in a finite money token system. Due to the exponential equation for compound interest, an infinite money supply is necessary - an impossibility. Third, all the bafflegab, convoluted explanations and theories are a smokescreen for diabolical evil that money madness has wrought over the millennia.
I am not quite sure I got that. But money is hardly the root of all evil. That tap root, belongs to humans themselves. Humans will hoard anything of value and will kill to the point of extermination anything that might stand in the way. We remain animals, though ones that operate differently than the rest.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:41 PM
5,239 posts, read 2,386,359 times
Reputation: 5119
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
In research one often attempts to isolate an influence, which may in the real world be overwhelmed. For example if I splash in a pool the waves are very real but may be lost in an ocean.
In understand that. What does it mean in the context of your post, RE: supply and demand?
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:43 PM
5,239 posts, read 2,386,359 times
Reputation: 5119
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
It is pure greed, as the value of the room didnt change, nor did the services. Did you give them more cable tv channels, room service? Just because you sold out due to travel, doesnt justify the increase in cost when nothing has changed other then less rooms. So you sold out, your end game is to sell out to max your profit, but increasing the cost without increasing the value of the room service is just pure greed.
When someone wants to buy your widget for $50, do you sell it to them for $10? You know, so you won’t be greedy?
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:16 AM
Location: Prepperland
13,136 posts, read 9,217,004 times
Reputation: 8990
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
Why compare money in circulation to the budget deficit? I do not see the point. If you are going to compare, why not choose a broader definition of money, say M2, which is at $14.1T? But even so, I do not see the point.
Well, let's clarify things so you can better understand the comedy.

LONG ANSWER : Money Reference
Article 1, Section 8. U.S. Constitution.
The Congress shall have Power
...To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Article 1, Section 10. U.S. Constitution
No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any ... Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, ...
Note: only gold and silver coin PAY DEBT. And if Congress had the power to create money, it wouldn't need the power to borrow it. Congress can only coin money (stamp bullion). It cannot create bullion.
TITLE 12,CHAPTER 3,SUBCHAPTER XII,sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
" Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be OBLIGATIONS of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in LAWFUL MONEY on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."
The dollar bill (FRN) is an IOU, issued on the authority of Congress to BORROW money.
Ahem - where's the lawful money lent to the Congress?
LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.

"Dollars, or units; each to be of the value of a Spanish milled as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four-sixteenths parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard, silver."
"Eagles each to be of the value of ten dollars or units, and to contain two hundred and forty-seven grains and four eighths of a grain of pure, or two hundred and seventy grains of standard gold."
--- Sec. 9, Coinage Act of 1792, January 1792
[480 grains = 1 troy ounce]

REAL MONEY - Money which has real metallic, intrinsic value as distinguished from paper currency, checks and drafts.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1264

MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005

NOTE - An instrument containing an express and absolute promise of signer (i.e. maker) to pay to a specified person or order, or bearer, a definite sum of money at a specified time. An instrument that is a promise to pay other than a certificate of deposit. U.C.C. 3-104(2)(d)
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1060
[A Federal Reserve NOTE (dollar bill) is NOT money, by law)]

And, since 1933, the bankrupted CONgress will NOT redeem their notes (debts) with lawful money.
[see House Joint Resolution 192, June 1933; Gold Reserve Act of 1934]

Oh, right, they STOLE all the people's lawful money and criminalized the possession of lawful money by "free" Americans. But I digress.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
$21.345 trillion dollars (8/14/2018) <== not dollar bills !

Computes to roughly 1,067,250,000,000 ounces of gold, stamped into double eagles ($20 coins).

186,700 tonnes of gold exists above ground, as of 2015.
1 metric tonne = 32150.7 troy ounces
World supply of gold (est) = 6,002,535,690 ounces.

CONgress borrowed 21 T dollars (1,067 B ounces of gold), but there is only 6 B ounces of gold available in the whole world.

OH MY... is there some FRAUD involved?

And this insanity cannot be questioned, pursuant to clause 4, 14th amendment, USCON.
“ The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law... shall not be questioned.”

There it is. An impossible to repay public debt that CANNOT be questioned.
Usury as usual.

". . .Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
Translation : in violation of 12 USC Sec. 411, "dollar bills" will not be redeemed with lawful money. They are worthless IOUs. And by the legal magic of voluntary socialism (FICA), every one pledged their labor and property as collateral on CONgress' bad checks that they've been kiting since 1933. As obligated parties on the debt, those worthless notes automagically become LEGAL TENDER and one must accept them in lieu of lawful money (gold and silver coin). And they were gracious enough to cease criminalizing the possession of lawful money (gold coin) by "free" Americans in 1972.

Luv ya, CONgress...
And thanks to the myriad minions of underpaid eCONomics "Science" who wave their arms, and keep that smokescreen up and running.


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Old 08-14-2018, 06:36 AM
2,253 posts, read 1,396,923 times
Reputation: 4906
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
You're trying to tell me something but it sounds like it's coming from a working suit thinking he's a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. Or Steve Wynn himself.

What I'd advocating would benefit you, too, if you even spent ONE night per year in a hotel.
I think you mean I sound like someone who understands and respects property rights.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:34 AM
2,756 posts, read 1,220,553 times
Reputation: 2099
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
I work in a hotel.

Illustrated, yet most still don't understand supply/demand when they pay the bill.

Average room rate is $125/night during weekday nites. Supply ( number of rooms available) is higher, demand is lower. Price is lower.

Average room rate friday and saturday nites: average $165.00/nite; demand is higher due to weekend travelers who stay Friday and Saturday nites, so supply is tight and lower, so price goes up.

Average room rate when an event is taking place and there isn't a room available in a 50 mile radius: average $275.00/nite. Supply :none, demand: extremely high, price goes way up.

Simple to see. (Should be) easy to understand.

People still grumble under their breath, or out loud when they cough up the money to pay the bill.

What gets complicated is:

They think it's greed, but when the hotel is completely booked, or now with so many third party options for booking that overbooking happens, supply is non-existent. So price is high. It actually could be higher.

Of course, they also figure it should be $25/nite average on week day nites when there are some empty rooms.
Enter then, into the mix, the basic cost to offer such rooms, as setting the price, even with vacancies. So on weekday nites it is really cost-driven pricing that sets a basic price, for cost plus appropriate profit margin.
Reenter demand. Because demand is higher than giving rooms away, price is stable at the $125/nite rate.

Enter also in, the business man or company that fill a a room or rooms every weeknite, guaranteeing a certain profitable price point at $85/nite for 4 nites per week, every week of the year, including the event weeks ( if such rates are allowed during events at the bargained rate.)

But that price point IS, however, accounted in the weeknite AVERAGE rate.

Supply and demand is simple, but often the waters are muddied by other factors affecting supply and demand...

Thats where people have misunderstandings of the basis of supply/demand.

Like the Price, the number of rooms is also stable and finite. The hotels are not creating extra rooms to meet demand, but citing the citing the demand to drive prices higher.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:46 AM
1,029 posts, read 562,608 times
Reputation: 301
DDM2K, I cannot read all of the posts within this forum and its threads but I suppose we generally concur there cannot be more of anything sold than bought; we additionally agree commercial markets behave as auctions:

Sellers derive “upset prices” based upon their opinions of current and/or anticipated “market-prices”, their own resources or “stock”, and their own needs.
Bidders consider their opinions of current and/or anticipated products that may be offered for sale, those products' current and/or anticipated “market-prices”, their own resources, and their own needs.

The concepts are simple; the consequences of interrelated factors are more complex.
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:30 AM
17,750 posts, read 15,041,223 times
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Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
In understand that. What does it mean in the context of your post, RE: supply and demand?
It applies to all contexts. However as I have implied, sinking a boat causes demand for life preservers. So if some corrupt special interest sinks the boat its not all just supply and demand. Then a Keynes introduced effective demand. Slaves with no buying power can demand all the prime rib they like but the quantity demand will be zero unless they have buying power. So when taxes are raised demand does not fall, but the quantity demanded sure will.
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:14 PM
1,415 posts, read 311,139 times
Reputation: 1199
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
So, if you are only willing to pay $1,000 for a Beverly Hills mansion, does that become its value?
No, because the seller wouldn't sell if for that. Home value is the price a buyer would pay and a seller would accept in an arm's length transaction under no duress of any kind.
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:17 PM
1,415 posts, read 311,139 times
Reputation: 1199
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
What did I just read?
There are some people who just cannot understand economics. I wouldn't bother.

It's smart business maximizing pricing based on demand. Hotels do this. Airlines do it. Uber and the like do it.
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