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Old 08-13-2018, 09:45 AM
 
7,000 posts, read 6,635,326 times
Reputation: 5274

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Private sector unions are fine but no one should be required to join them to keep a job.
Like FDR, I think public unions should be outlawed as they are contrary to the public interest in several very critical ways.
It's a violation of freedom of assembly or association. Corporations can form lobbying groups. Powerful industries often have the clout to use the friendly media to lobby on their behalf, have regulators and politicians in their hip pockets, and have other advantages that the individual doesn't.
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Old 08-13-2018, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,315 posts, read 12,573,110 times
Reputation: 19022
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Loud View Post
Trump is a conservative?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!
He certainly isn't a liberal.
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Old 08-13-2018, 12:41 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 332,233 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
He certainly isn't a liberal.
As a native New Yorker it's a different kind of "conservative" than what you'd find in rural America. Conservative like if a project is at risk of running over budget, the solution is not to compromise on quality, but simply stiff a few contractors until it's back to the original quote.
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:15 PM
 
1,953 posts, read 754,738 times
Reputation: 7779
I didn't truly understand how badly we need unions until the gubmint started killing them off.

There are not, in fact, "tons of laws" protecting workers. There are tons of laws protecting employers though. We actually elected a guy who routinely refuses to pay his workers, on the premise that he's going to protect the same guys he's stiffed in the past.

Riiiiiight.
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:26 PM
 
Location: AZ
593 posts, read 305,018 times
Reputation: 2416
If you find yourself in Paris and suddenly one of the French unions decides to strike which is fairly common, and you are stuck at the airport for an undefined time, then do take the time to appreciate trade unions. Reagan fired something like 11000 employees working for the FAA. The union did not care about the traveling public. People who needed to get to someplace for surgery or to be with a loved one about to take their last breath. Care about you? No. Care about them? No. The good news is the strike was short lived because the FAA had contingency plans to deal with such a scenario. That included using almost a 1000 military controllers to help with the work stoppage. Unions have a sordid history. Check out the strikes by unions when WW II was underway. Dozens of strikes while American soldiers were in combat fighting for their lives. The Army had to seize a number of industries to keep them going. Patriotism my foot. Here in AZ teachers walked out. Hooray for them. Of course the many families who were thrown into turmoil looking for sitters and daycare and all of that were irrelevant. Sorry, no sympathy for unions or at least their leadership.
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Old 08-13-2018, 03:45 PM
 
Location: La Mesa Aka The Table
7,184 posts, read 7,517,679 times
Reputation: 7974
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
As a native New Yorker it's a different kind of "conservative" than what you'd find in rural America. Conservative like if a project is at risk of running over budget, the solution is not to compromise on quality, but simply stiff a few contractors until it's back to the original quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyewackette View Post
I didn't truly understand how badly we need unions until the gubmint started killing them off.

There are not, in fact, "tons of laws" protecting workers. There are tons of laws protecting employers though. We actually elected a guy who routinely refuses to pay his workers, on the premise that he's going to protect the same guys he's stiffed in the past.

Riiiiiight.
Trump
I swear, some people just hate on Unions because there own lives suck and for no other reason.
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:00 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 332,233 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bygeorge View Post
If you find yourself in Paris and suddenly one of the French unions decides to strike which is fairly common, and you are stuck at the airport for an undefined time, then do take the time to appreciate trade unions. Reagan fired something like 11000 employees working for the FAA. The union did not care about the traveling public. People who needed to get to someplace for surgery or to be with a loved one about to take their last breath. Care about you? No. Care about them? No. The good news is the strike was short lived because the FAA had contingency plans to deal with such a scenario. That included using almost a 1000 military controllers to help with the work stoppage. Unions have a sordid history. Check out the strikes by unions when WW II was underway. Dozens of strikes while American soldiers were in combat fighting for their lives. The Army had to seize a number of industries to keep them going. Patriotism my foot. Here in AZ teachers walked out. Hooray for them. Of course the many families who were thrown into turmoil looking for sitters and daycare and all of that were irrelevant. Sorry, no sympathy for unions or at least their leadership.
Work stoppage is one of the most effective tactics used for negotiation. Unless there was a no-strike clause written into the contract (such as with unionized nurses, as doing so would constitute patient abandonment, endangering them of licensure being revoked) there is no legal obligation for the employees to continue to work once the contract is expired.
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:08 PM
EA
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,472 posts, read 4,666,253 times
Reputation: 5911
Unions have caused far more harm than good.
I was in the union out here. It was great. Good pay and benefits. But the pay isn't honest at all. They force wages by bribing lawmakers to force prices. Horrible for competition and customers.
It can work in Vegas because the casinos have enough money to deal with the costs, but it's killed other areas.

Look at how bad our education system is. You can't fire crap teachers. You can't change the way things are done. It's because the unions are protecting a crap system.
Unions are killing several city budgets. They need to go.

Then we have the overtime crap they pushed onto us.
Most of the country can only make 40 hours a week. So if you need more money than that, tough crap.
Very few people are getting overtime. Most people working excess hours are salary and not getting overtime because employers are looking at how to get out of OT.
The whole concept is ridiculous.

Jenn the accountant is worth 10 an hour for 8 hours a day and then magically she is worth 15 an hour after 8 hours a day.
It's horrible for businesses and employees.

When times were tough, an extra 10 hours a week would have saved me and my boss would have allowed it if not for overtime laws. Instead I could sent home at 40 hours. So I could either go find a higher paying job or be broke.
2,000 applications later, higher paying job was out of the question.

Now I work for myself. If I need more money, I work longer. There's nothing but sleep preventing me from making more.
No overtime restrictions. No union bs. No holidays. Nothing. Just a smooth path to financial independence that I could have been on long ago if not for unions.
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:14 PM
 
3,968 posts, read 1,596,412 times
Reputation: 12400
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
im more or less indifferent towards unions. however, i am opposed to public sector unions. they use their political power to abuse taxpayers as the government officials do not properly represent the taxpayers as "owners" when it comes to negotiating wages and benefits.

This.



As someone who has done business with the government over the years, it is mind-boggling how much abuse, inefficiency, and outright incompetence is inflicted on taxpayers by Federal employees. Behavior that wouldn't fly for a nanosecond in the private sector gets shrugged at in the public sector.



Having walked the halls of any number of Federal agencies, I believe strongly that you could walk through any government office and fire 2/3rds of the employees completely at random without any let down in efficiency. In fact, you would likely get more.



What's more, today's Federal worker gets paid more than the average private sector employee and enjoys a fat pension.
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:33 PM
 
644 posts, read 142,517 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bygeorge View Post
If you find yourself in Paris and suddenly one of the French unions decides to strike which is fairly common, and you are stuck at the airport for an undefined time, then do take the time to appreciate trade unions. Reagan fired something like 11000 employees working for the FAA. The union did not care about the traveling public. People who needed to get to someplace for surgery or to be with a loved one about to take their last breath. Care about you? No. Care about them? No. The good news is the strike was short lived because the FAA had contingency plans to deal with such a scenario. That included using almost a 1000 military controllers to help with the work stoppage. Unions have a sordid history. Check out the strikes by unions when WW II was underway. Dozens of strikes while American soldiers were in combat fighting for their lives. The Army had to seize a number of industries to keep them going. Patriotism my foot. Here in AZ teachers walked out. Hooray for them. Of course the many families who were thrown into turmoil looking for sitters and daycare and all of that were irrelevant. Sorry, no sympathy for unions or at least their leadership.
......"suddenly one of the French Unions decide to strike which is fairly common

????????????

Every union I was in had a " no strike/no lockout clause for the duration of the contract.

After the contract expired, the options were ..

#1........continue working while both sides negotiated ( had to be agreed upon by both parties )
#2........the company could lock out the workers .......after giving notice to workers
#3........the workers could go on strike after giving notice to the company

Been there, dome that........United States
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