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Old 08-15-2018, 01:11 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 332,233 times
Reputation: 1667

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In general, I don't see fast food workers staying at the same job (on AVERAGE) long enough to even start any type of organized labor force. I was told by a McDonald's GM that the average annual attrition is 200%, meaning each position can be expected to turn over twice in a given year. 4 months.

It's possible, but is it likely? Considering the franchise locations are independently owned and operated. I just don't see your fears coming true - not with fast food workers, any way.

Now, one area that DOES get a lot of attention is warehouse workers. Teamsters. Historically, according to the DoL, dock work is considered unskilled, however, that is subject to interpretation:

- Is a loader operating a motorized pallet jack unskilled? (Answers will vary)
- Is a forklift driver unskilled? (Answers will vary)
- Is a semi truck driver unskilled? (Careful!)
- is a crane operator unskilled? (NO!)

I think if you can demonstrate that the workers in a given title are career-oriented, have an average tenure of greater than one year, and are part of a career pathway to gain skills and move within the company - as they should be - then that's a solid operation with dedicated employees. I'd hold that group in as high esteem as skilled labor, regardless of DoL definitions.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:39 AM
 
1,029 posts, read 559,669 times
Reputation: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
I don’t wish ill on anyone, but I judge a society by its best and brightest and not by the lowest common denominator. Every society will always have people at the bottom, by nature, there’s no avoiding that. ... And no, I don’t think unskilled people need a union to represent them. I don’t think most skilled people do, either. I happen to think in some limited situations it makes a degree of sense. ...
JonathanLB, I suspect that proportional increases of USA's GDP's purchasing power (in U.S. Dollars) per capita is and the purchasing power is lagging those of many other nation's GDP's and their currencies.

I strongly suspect that the increased purchasing powers of those better-performing economies median wages are also proportionally performing better than USA's median wage.

GDP per capita indicates our domestic production per capita and proportional to our median wage, it's the best indicator of our nation's median living standard. It indicates how well our aggregate population lives.

I attribute the Federal Taft-Harley act governing labor unions, and a federal minimum wage rate not retaining its purchasing power, and USA's chronic annual trade deficits, as the causing over the decades lagging of our median wage's proportional increases as compared to many other nations.

You're a craftsman that's relatively well paid, and you're now safe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
JonathanLB, … You recognize the benefits you derive from your union, but would wish to deny it to others? Those others are “untermenschen”, unworthy of consideration or any respect? Obviously, you're not ashamed of your opinion. If I understood your post correctly, I think you should be ashamed. It's my hope your convictions will change, but I don't wish that they should change due to experiencing personally detrimental circumstances.
When those chosen to be with the first U.S. troop waves to land, there was no exclusion for those having lesser shares of the war because their families' owned lesser portions of our nation's wealth. Lesser equitable economies endanger their nations' democracies.

"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy." — Abraham Lincoln.

"… democracy isn't like a Sunday suit to be brought out and worn only for parades. It's the kind of a life a decent man leads, it's something to live for and to die for." — Dalton Trumbo
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
... The market determines the value for goods and services and it does a nearly perfect job of it.
JonathanLB, the increased ratio between USA's GDP per capita and our median wage, and the lagging increases of our median wage's purchasing power indicate that USA's employees' labors are undervalued; our employees are underpaid.
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:21 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,208,003 times
Reputation: 8988
I personally detest collective bargaining and unions. They're instruments of great evil.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:22 AM
 
1,029 posts, read 559,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
I personally detest collective bargaining and unions. They're instruments of great evil.
JetGraphics, efforts to demean others are a greater evil.

Opposition to the federal minimum wage rate or the retention of the rate's purchasing power, or laws effectively maintaining substantially greater employers' advantages when they're dealing with job applicants and employees, are all in effect efforts to degrade others.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:36 AM
 
93 posts, read 18,424 times
Reputation: 104
it's not hard to get out of the rat race. The National guard will pay you $800 per month to go to college, and you dont have to pay tuition or fees. You can still have your pell grant and loans. They'll give you 20k for signing up. You'll get VA home loan, no 20% down payment, no PMI required, no loan insurance required. In OK, you can buy BIG old houses for 50k, I am not kidding and rent out a dozen small rooms for $100 a week each.By the time you get done with your 6 year commitment, you can easily be clearing 60k a year from your boarding houses, without your having to do a thing. You can retire very nicely in many countries on half that much money. 1k a year each, to the police chief and mayor, in many countries, will make you an honorary cop, able to ccw a pistol and arrest people. That removes a lot of the problems that are inherent with being a foreigner there. Marry a local and have your kids there, where you can raise them properly on 5k a year, instead of having to spend 5x that much to do so.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:12 AM
 
1,029 posts, read 559,669 times
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JonathanLB, right pew, wrong church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
I donít get the concept that any business is evil if they pay their employees as little as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
JonathanLB, to the extent that our federal minimum wage's purchasing power's insufficient to better serve our economy, is consequentially an evil; To the extent that our laws do not automatically retain the minimum rate's purchasing power, further compounds that evil; the consequential affects due to USA's chronic annual trade deficits is evil. These are evil because consequentially they more or less generally demean employees and the values of their labor.

Employers alone did not create their nation's financial and economic environment. I did not contend acting in self-interest is evil; I stated that efforts to demean others are generally evil acts.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,117 posts, read 9,208,003 times
Reputation: 8988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
JetGraphics, efforts to demean others are a greater evil.
Denouncing collective bargaining as evil is not demeaning. It's just a fact. But if facts are evil, we're toast, my friend.
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:07 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 332,233 times
Reputation: 1667
Draw your own conclusions from this, but the political orientations (thus beliefs, in the vast majority of cases) are determined by a number of factors:

- Geographic location of the work, influenced by the local culture
- Overall goal and purpose of the work being performed
- Whether or not someone is in charge of others, or even works in a more powerful yet indirectly superior capacity
- The degree of autonomy allowed by a role, and how law and regulations impact the ability to earn one's income

I found this chart, and I'd like to get some opinions on it. Democratic vs. Republican occupations
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Old 08-17-2018, 01:18 AM
 
Location: USA
6,171 posts, read 4,952,891 times
Reputation: 10547
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
In general, I don't see fast food workers staying at the same job (on AVERAGE) long enough to even start any type of organized labor force. I was told by a McDonald's GM that the average annual attrition is 200%, meaning each position can be expected to turn over twice in a given year. 4 months.

It's possible, but is it likely? Considering the franchise locations are independently owned and operated. I just don't see your fears coming true - not with fast food workers, any way.

Now, one area that DOES get a lot of attention is warehouse workers. Teamsters. Historically, according to the DoL, dock work is considered unskilled, however, that is subject to interpretation:

- Is a loader operating a motorized pallet jack unskilled? (Answers will vary)
- Is a forklift driver unskilled? (Answers will vary)
- Is a semi truck driver unskilled? (Careful!)
- is a crane operator unskilled? (NO!)

I think if you can demonstrate that the workers in a given title are career-oriented, have an average tenure of greater than one year, and are part of a career pathway to gain skills and move within the company - as they should be - then that's a solid operation with dedicated employees. I'd hold that group in as high esteem as skilled labor, regardless of DoL definitions.
There has been a boom of building warehouses in my area for awhile. Largely because the operations are moving out of the neighboring union state to our non-union one. Warehouses here pay low wages, no benefits, and are sweatshop conditions.
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