U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-09-2018, 11:07 AM
 
372 posts, read 243,878 times
Reputation: 420

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liledgy View Post
7 reply’s from people that dislike unions, contradicting each other as to why they hate them.
They all hate the unions for different reasons. None of them are 'contradicting' each other, that means to speak to the opposite of.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-09-2018, 11:44 AM
 
3,700 posts, read 3,026,594 times
Reputation: 10007
For those who have little to no knowledge regarding the history of American labor, the only portal of information has been the corporate one, and that is an obvious anti union one. As we retreat to the past, seeking those "good old days" we will pass by the millions of children abused by manufacturing interests, the millions of women who were brutalized in the garment industry, the black and native population who were kept down in poverty, it wasn't the fair game economy that today's corporate apologists make it out to be. Donald Trump ran, and won, on the premise that corporate greed was behind most trade agreements, most of the labor outsourcing, and most of the woes of the American worker....

The modern reality of greed won't be overcome by notions of "free" markets, simply for the fact that there never has been any free market in America. People say unions are not needed any longer, that they're outdated, what they fail to understand is that unions were, and still are, a response to greed, and greed is certainly still in vogue among the corporations of the world. Corporations aren't evil, and neither are unions, but both have a history of greedy and self centered people being part of those entities. Unions, like our political functions, are best served by a large measure of democratic inclusion, and this is where government should be present, to insure the workers are getting fair treatment from labor leadership. Or, from corporate excess.

I worked non union for many years, watched the business owners getting wealthier by the year, and no raises were offered to us the people who made them wealthy. Couldn't go to another business as the owners were invested in their own union (business group) which drove down our wages across the state, that the collusion necessary for that move was illegal was of no concern for them, they simply denied it. Twenty years working union and I'm now retired and doing well, contributing to the economy instead of taking from it. Unions are a human construct and therefore subject to all the frailties of man, there is no perfect solution to greed, but in my case being organized was crucial to my well being..The spread of well being is accomplished through workers being organized, and that is why unions affect everyone in the working class.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2018, 11:45 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,148 posts, read 18,127,033 times
Reputation: 9868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
I think you mean, unions distort the free market and then the free market steps in and makes the correction.

See: towns exactly like me and the previous poster mentioned.

You can’t force someone to pay you more than you are actually worth.
No, I don’t need you to tell me what I mean. To deny freely functioning unions are a part of the free market is twisting definitions to suit your own purpose. Not everything in the market is going to be to your liking, tough.

When you negotiate you get us much as you can. That’s the nature of business. Sometimes it works out in the long run, sometimes not. That’s business too. Sometimes you have to renegotiate and take a hit. That’s business too.

In any event do you argue against corporations because some were mismanaged and crashed?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2018, 12:00 PM
 
Location: USA
6,171 posts, read 4,948,777 times
Reputation: 10547
From my experience the union seemed to only benefit the older and slower, more expensive workers while doing little for the business itself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2018, 12:10 PM
 
Location: NJ
22,670 posts, read 28,559,598 times
Reputation: 14611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liledgy View Post
7 reply’s from people that dislike unions, contradicting each other as to why they hate them.
i dont hate unions. most of my employees are members of a union. i have an excellent working relationship with the union. i am confident that i can give an objective assessment of their benefits/costs to my employees (moreso than my employees can). its complicated but i feel that a % of my employees benefit and a % are negatively impacted. its probably 60-70% or so negative. there are a lot of other factors involved so it really isnt that simple. its totally inaccurate to say that i hate unions or anyone. when it comes to business, i am completely objective.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2018, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,311 posts, read 12,569,286 times
Reputation: 19017
Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Private sector unions are fine but no one should be required to join them to keep a job.
Like FDR, I think public unions should be outlawed as they are contrary to the public interest in several very critical ways.
Then workers who have decided not to join the union should not expect the union to defend them if they are unfairly disciplined or fired.....you are on your own.....good luck with that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2018, 12:18 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,148 posts, read 18,127,033 times
Reputation: 9868
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker View Post
From my experience the union seemed to only benefit the older and slower, more expensive workers while doing little for the business itself.
Businessmen are generally pretty good at looking out for themselves.

Now I was a union boilermaker for 35 years, Local 1, Chicago. I made considerably more money than non union boilermakers, had better benefits and conditions. I made enough dough to put both my daughters through the U of Illinois paying every nickel out of pocket—tuition, books, housing, food-the whole shebang. Even bought a new car for them to run between Chicago and Champaign. I retired 14 years ago at 55 with an excellent pension.

Now if anyone can convince me being union wasn’t to my benefit I’ll call them Aristotle.

The benefit of others isn’t my concern, I mean that’s the way capitalism works, right—I look out for myself and you look out for yourself, right? And when someone disapproves of the success of others you accuse them of envy and being unAmerican, right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2018, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
15,148 posts, read 15,204,207 times
Reputation: 10872
Maybe it is time for Unions to offer services to only those who want them.....as opposed to getting all huffy because some do not want to join. Legal services, shop stewards, medical plans, training, etc.....if you want these benefits, join us!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2018, 03:26 PM
 
3,700 posts, read 3,026,594 times
Reputation: 10007
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Maybe it is time for Unions to offer services to only those who want them.....as opposed to getting all huffy because some do not want to join. Legal services, shop stewards, medical plans, training, etc.....if you want these benefits, join us!
Actually, most of those who don't want unions in the workplace are ignorant of the facts of union representation and labor history in general, and most, at some juncture in their career will be getting a real wake up call when they attempt to deal with HR on their own terms.

Unions never made people wealthy, but they have given rise to the idea of serving your own self interest, the same anti union types also never question why the business owner's interest is the only one deemed to be of benefit to the community or nation.

Conservatives usually whine about "handouts" to the poor, then turn around and support all that which creates a poverty stricken work force, including low wages, high profit margins, unequal educational opportunity, and a ton of other views which serve to impoverish people. most of America's poor are working, sometimes as many as three jobs. These people need representation beyond what the dept of labor can offer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2018, 03:36 PM
 
2,084 posts, read 792,368 times
Reputation: 4055
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
im more or less indifferent towards unions. however, i am opposed to public sector unions. they use their political power to abuse taxpayers as the government officials do not properly represent the taxpayers as "owners" when it comes to negotiating wages and benefits.
It's totally unreasonable to hate unions. You need to follow some history on how the name Union began.

The reason we all have any decent labor laws in place today is because of the formation of the first unions.

"The labor movement in the United States grew out of the need to protect the common interest of workers. For those in the industrial sector, organized labor unions fought for better wages, reasonable hours and safer working conditions. The labor movement led efforts to stop child labor, give health benefits and provide aid to workers who were injured or retired." https://www.history.com/topics/labor

https://www.iww.org/category/union-n...eral-product-0https://www.iww.org/category/union-n...eral-product-0
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top